Return-Path: Received: from mail-qe0-f53.google.com ([209.85.128.53] verified) by media-motion.tv (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2.10) with ESMTP-TLS id 5326125 for AE-List@media-motion.tv; Sun, 22 Dec 2013 03:30:21 +0100 Received: by mail-qe0-f53.google.com with SMTP id nc12so3907805qeb.26 for ; Sat, 21 Dec 2013 18:33:23 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=YNkRHbB6WCfYpINP6s3ypzPh9K5I+1NU+mDXGLW6Vc4=; b=v5oI9AVlFuWerG1BdHJ2NGyjgjVFYESmpVjycS+2yJ77pWOHFHAVX28Wr7UPRnO3GE 6ScGNKPdvE9JQNxPr2whlOXSpKqt+tS3RQlZ1oLU1YsTiASK/yI/yolmdlMil7ggiPx5 gycn8gaeDQywIHLpjvQcsgwnv1SCImOHkaYHpqJSazLpd7awvFYPtKPRQma0MPKT4TFB yl9D0B5G4gThaU+UM05feVdj/ZvowWhj+nTh80pD2tD6YFQpIMix0kA+A5KvDXR/Yfes FTk3ctvCumYU1t/VohfT4DEcV75hB5rbWLxn/jAPKUX4smXSFJXqBZa8Iwi/xkqsRpep M0og== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.224.151.145 with SMTP id c17mr29500460qaw.24.1387679603541; Sat, 21 Dec 2013 18:33:23 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.96.16.102 with HTTP; Sat, 21 Dec 2013 18:33:23 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2013 21:33:23 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [AE] (OT) New Mac Pro - Who's getting it? From: Teddy Gage To: After Effects Mail List Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e0149cedcd4cd9504ee1655a4 --089e0149cedcd4cd9504ee1655a4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The graphics card is an area where the mac pro looks like it has the advantage. Until the numbers come out I cant say for sure. However I was talking mainly about CPU benchmarks. I will say 2x gtx 580 with 3gb ram each has a ton of cuda power for under $400. Faster than my single gtx titan that was almost $1000. And 90% of my AE work is still cpu dependent, not gpu. On Saturday, December 21, 2013, James Culbertson wrote: > Teddy, I don't know whether you are correct or not more generally, but I > am curious to know what D700/W9000 GPU card equivalent you are using to g= et > that price. And does that price account for a single or dual GPU setup? > > Thanks, > > James > > > On Dec 21, 2013, at 4:46 PM, Teddy Gage wrote: > > James, you can do whatever you want, but don't misrepresent the > facts. A custom PC with similar render numbers on many benchmarks than yo= ur > new mac pro will actually run you closer to $1,200-1,500. You could > literally buy three hex-core computers for the price of that single mac > pro. In terms of render power, that's a far cry from "a couple hundred > dollars" difference. Yes the Pro has many bespoke custom parts. But they > are more or less matched to 90% by regular high end PC components. For > example nobody "needs" ECC RAM at 200% markup or Xeon-class chips at 300% > markup. Regular DDR4 RAM and i7 chips are just as good, if not faster, in > many cases. > > You don't have to build it yourself, and you don't have to buy it > from Dell or HP, who also charge a hefty markup closer to Apple's, which = is > where a lot of these inaccurate numbers are coming from. There are tons o= f > mid-level workstation builders out there with great reliability and good > warranties. Your justification is fine, I'm not here to tell you how to > spend your money. But your comparison is simply not accurate if you > understand computer hardware and benchmarks. > > > On Sat, Dec 21, 2013 at 5:10 PM, James Culbertson > > wrote: > >> I'm looking at buying a 6 core base processor, 512GB SSD, 32GB RAM, and >> dual D700s (and AppleCare) for about $5500 + tax. Thunderbolt peripheral= s >> extra of course. >> >> From what I can see an equivalent cost workstation PC isn't all that >> different. Building one yourself is cheaper I assume but that's still no= t >> really worth the time based on my hourly/daily rate. >> >> Then there is the cost of equivalent GPUs on the PC side. As I understan= d >> it a D700 is pretty equivalent to a W9000 at over $3000/GPU. But even th= e >> D300 is a pretty good deal. Someone correct me if I am wrong here. >> >> In any case, if there is a couple of hundred dollar premium (GPUs aside) >> for having what I personally consider a superior system (knowing full we= ll >> that what each of us considers a superior system varies immensely) and I >> can pay for it on average with about 2 weeks of work... well, what's the >> debate really about? >> >> James >> >> >> On Dec 20, 2013, at 12:11 PM, S=F8ren Christensen wrote: >> >> >> I was trying to configure a HP Z workstation and a Boxx workstation with >> the same specs (cpu, gfx card etc)as the new mac pro. >> They ticked in between 38-51% more expensive than a new mac pro. With >> normal sata6 ssdnand with smaller category gfx cards (And off course pc= ie >> slots). >> With one gfx card they where still expensiverl... >> I find it quite odd that people are ranting about how expensive the mac >> is maxed out when pc counterparts cost the same or a lot more for the sa= me >> configuration. >> >> In my case the mac pro comes as a blessing and the form factor is very >> welcome. I do a lot of live visuals and virtual scenography where gpu >> performance and multiple (more than 3) outputs is a must. And super fast >> ssd speeds to handle xx amounts of realtime hd video layers a necessity. >> This small wine-cooler-look-a-like design (Bodum, anyone?) fits in the >> hand luggage. Touring with mac pros has become fun again :-) >> >> Looking forward to see some real world cpu and gpu tests. What has been >> clear for a long time is that gpu power is the new 'black'. Lets hope th= at >> the all-in bet on opencl pays off. >> >> >> Cheers, >> S=F8ren >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> |||| DESILENCE STUDIO >> |||| www.dslnc.com - motion & interactivity >> |||| +34 93 268 0953 / +34 61 555 9963 (mobile) >> >> |||| SOCIAL >> |||| twitter.dslnc.com facebook.dslnc.com >> >> |||| SHOWREEL 2013 >> |||| v5.dslnc.com/reel/ >> >> >> >> On 20 Dec 2013, at 20:20, dennis@reelsolutions.com > 'cvml', 'dennis@reelsolutions.com');> wrote: >> >> You say "Not interested in starting any mac vs. pc debate..." Then >> "I imagine they are mainly for rich nerds to show off?" ... Ok... >> >> >> Count me in as a rich nerd I guess - I'll be buying one. I've never >> regretted buying a Mac, when I've gotten a bad one (1 in 16+years, they'= ve >> been great at correcting the problem). >> >> I've made a couple PC purchases I'd rather not go into... >> >> Why make an assumption how long it will take to get repaired? I had a >> MacPro way out of warranty that had a power supply go bad; I guess they >> didn't have the part because they gave me a brand new base model MacPro = for >> no charge at all, they didn't even charge for the diagnostic fee. (And t= hey >> let me pay the difference to upgrade it to the fastest MacPro). What a >> waste of money! >> This was for a 4+ yr old machine, they weren't obligated to do anything. >> Time to receive the new machine was about a week ( mainly because I >> requested a non-stocked configuration). >> >> HP wants $3,749 for the 12 core Xeon chip, they're not cheap. >> >> 800.00 to upgrade from a 256GB SSD isn't bad considering it will do 1200 >> MB/s. To match that speed, you can't really replicate it easily (RAID ad= ds >> latency). >> >> mho... Dennis Wilkins >> >> >> >> > > > -- > _____________________________ > VFX & Motion Graphic Artist > teddygage dot com > > > --=20 _____________________________ VFX & Motion Graphic Artist teddygage dot com --089e0149cedcd4cd9504ee1655a4 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The graphics card is an area where the mac pro looks like it has the advant= age. Until the numbers come out I=A0cant say for sure. However I was talkin= g mainly about CPU benchmarks. I will say=A02x gtx 580 with 3gb ram each ha= s a ton of cuda power for under $400. Faster than my single=A0gtx titan tha= t was almost $1000. And=A090% of my AE=A0work is still=A0cpu dependent, not= gpu.

On Saturday, December 21, 2013, James Culbertson wrote:
Teddy, I don&#= 39;t know whether you are correct or not more generally, but I am curious t= o know what D700/W9000 GPU card equivalent you are using to get that price.= And does that price account for a single or dual GPU setup?

Thanks,

James


On Dec 21, 2013, at 4:46 PM, Teddy Gage wrote:

<= blockquote type=3D"cite">
=A0 =A0 =A0James, you can do what= ever you want, but don't misrepresent the facts. A custom PC with simil= ar render numbers on many benchmarks than your new mac pro will actually ru= n you closer to $1,200-1,500. You could literally buy three hex-core comput= ers for the price of that single mac pro. In terms of render power, that= 9;s a far cry from "a couple hundred dollars" difference.=A0Yes t= he Pro has many bespoke custom parts. But they are more or=A0less matched t= o 90% by regular high end PC components. For example nobody "needs&quo= t; ECC RAM at 200% markup or Xeon-class chips at 300% markup. Regular DDR4 = RAM and i7 chips are just as good, if not faster, in many cases.=A0

=A0 =A0 =A0You don't have to build it yourself, and you = don't have to buy it from Dell or HP, who also charge a hefty markup cl= oser to Apple's, which is where a lot of these inaccurate numbers are c= oming from. There are tons of mid-level workstation builders out there with= great reliability and good warranties. Your justification is fine, I'm= not here to tell you how to spend your money. But your comparison is simpl= y not accurate if you understand computer hardware and benchmarks.=A0


O= n Sat, Dec 21, 2013 at 5:10 PM, James Culbertson <albion@speakeasy.net> wrote:
I&#= 39;m looking at buying=A0a 6 core base processor, 512GB SSD, 32GB RAM, and dual D700s (and AppleCare) for = about $5500 + tax. Thunderbolt peripherals extra of course.

From what I can see an equivalent cost workstation PC isn't all that = different. Building one yourself is cheaper I assume but that's still n= ot really worth the time based on my hourly/daily rate.

Then there is the cost of equivalent GPUs on the PC side. As I understand= it a D700 is pretty equivalent to a W9000 at over $3000/GPU. But even the = D300 is a pretty good deal. Someone correct me if I am wrong here.

In any case, if there is a couple of hundred dollar premium (GPUs aside) = for having what I personally consider a superior system (knowing full well = that what each of us considers a superior system varies immensely) and I ca= n pay for it on average with about 2 weeks of work... well, what's the = debate really about?

James

=

On Dec 20, 2013, at 12:11 PM, S=F8ren Chris= tensen wrote:


I was trying to configure a HP Z workstation and a Bo= xx workstation with the same specs (cpu, gfx card etc)as the new mac pro.
They ticked in between 38-51% more expensive than a new mac pro. With = normal sata6 ssdnand =A0with smaller category gfx cards (And off course pci= e slots).
With one gfx card they where still expensiverl...=
I find it quite odd that people are ranting about how expensive t= he mac is maxed out when pc counterparts cost the same or a lot more for th= e same configuration.

In my case the mac pro comes as a blessing and the form factor is very= welcome. I do a lot of live visuals and virtual scenography where gpu perf= ormance and multiple (more than 3) outputs is a must. And super fast ssd sp= eeds to handle xx amounts of realtime hd video layers a necessity. This sma= ll wine-cooler-look-a-like =A0design (Bodum, anyone?) fits in the hand lugg= age. Touring with mac pros has become fun again :-)

Looking forward to see some real world cpu and gpu test= s. What has been clear for a long time is that gpu power is the new 'bl= ack'. Lets hope that the all-in bet on opencl pays off.


Cheers,
S=F8ren






<dslnc_email2_black.png>


|||| DESILENCE STUDIO
|||| = =A0+34 93 268 0953 =A0/ =A0+34 61 555 9963 (mobile)

||||= =A0SOCIAL
||||=A0twitter.dsln= c.com=A0=A0facebook.= dslnc.com

||= || SHOWREEL 2013



On 20 Dec 2013, at 20:20, dennis@re= elsolutions.com wrote:

You say "Not interested in starting any ma= c vs. pc debate..." Then=A0
"I imagine they are mainly for ric= h nerds to show off?" ... Ok...

Count me in as a rich nerd I guess - I'll be buyi= ng one. I've never regretted buying a Mac, when I've gotten a bad o= ne (1 in 16+years, they've been great at correcting the problem).

I've made a couple PC purchases I'd rather not = go into...=A0

Why make an assumption how long it w= ill take to get repaired? I had a MacPro way out of warranty that had a pow= er supply go bad; I guess they didn't have the part because they gave m= e a brand new base model MacPro for no charge at all, they didn't even = charge for the diagnostic fee. (And they let me pay the difference to upgra= de it to the fastest MacPro). What a waste of money!
This was for a 4+ yr old machine, they weren't obligated to do any= thing. Time to receive the new machine was about a week ( mainly because I = requested a non-stocked configuration).

HP wants $= 3,749 for the 12 core Xeon chip, they're not cheap.

800.00 to upgrade from a 256GB SSD isn't bad = considering it will do 1200 MB/s. To match that speed, you can't really= replicate it easily (RAID adds latency).

mho... D= ennis Wilkins





--
=
_____________________________
VFX & Motion= Graphic Artist
teddygage dot com



--
<= div>_____________________________
VFX & Motion Graphic Artist
teddygage dot com

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