Return-Path: Received: from mail-qa0-f53.google.com ([209.85.216.53] verified) by media-motion.tv (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2.10) with ESMTP-TLS id 5326130 for AE-List@media-motion.tv; Sun, 22 Dec 2013 03:33:41 +0100 Received: by mail-qa0-f53.google.com with SMTP id j5so4028549qaq.12 for ; Sat, 21 Dec 2013 18:36:43 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=nWrMK9fBKI6Cnb/6NiLi9qvT4caQcBk3KifKqQXxl+Y=; b=xbAGdG2EKgyRBpEbdRLnWEI/LBoX67YTzTvCvLsUoYZgQKXphWCzI+pswxFBFfO3AO 0mJUhqQM3ABwS985qpbYPDxgQZ4jQBPPVRfk14vZQ8qHK8cPeCmO9/HF/B7N95kUzb1m E45PSaPndCrQ+6zaSRGx3nVo1yQtoXRMjlFZT8Rs0kLvL1+PLvD2GSBFe6sKNJ19/y71 PunnE83nerDFfriYOhUKffj/E9umWcF2LgYDawAnHXYQXuinAjF01W+JBuTnLy4VVAon iILk78MFvGrpPo6z7SnlGHMPbGJ8a3qfWPGBVpGcpBMq+dmOs/tj3sBcFFDNrTb7fAlR LwZw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.224.151.145 with SMTP id c17mr29514440qaw.24.1387679803556; Sat, 21 Dec 2013 18:36:43 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.96.16.102 with HTTP; Sat, 21 Dec 2013 18:36:43 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2013 21:36:43 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [AE] (OT) New Mac Pro - Who's getting it? From: Teddy Gage To: After Effects Mail List Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e0149cedcc0c6f304ee166120 --089e0149cedcc0c6f304ee166120 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Im not trying to bully anyone. I thought what I said was pretty straightforward. Im sorry if it came off that way. I do have strong opinions. I will try to tone it down. I apologize. On Saturday, December 21, 2013, Brian Behm wrote: > Teddy, has anyone ever told you that you wobble on the line between > speaking your mind and being a bully? > > There's certainly room for talking about the pros and cons, but you prett= y > regularly get aggressive and negative. Take a deep breath. > > You've often got really valuable things to say, but you need to check > your tone. It can be pretty off putting. > > Brian Behm > > > On Saturday, December 21, 2013, Teddy Gage wrote: > >> James, you can do whatever you want, but don't misrepresent the >> facts. A custom PC with similar render numbers on many benchmarks than y= our >> new mac pro will actually run you closer to $1,200-1,500. You could >> literally buy three hex-core computers for the price of that single mac >> pro. In terms of render power, that's a far cry from "a couple hundred >> dollars" difference. Yes the Pro has many bespoke custom parts. But they >> are more or less matched to 90% by regular high end PC components. For >> example nobody "needs" ECC RAM at 200% markup or Xeon-class chips at 300= % >> markup. Regular DDR4 RAM and i7 chips are just as good, if not faster, i= n >> many cases. >> >> You don't have to build it yourself, and you don't have to buy it >> from Dell or HP, who also charge a hefty markup closer to Apple's, which= is >> where a lot of these inaccurate numbers are coming from. There are tons = of >> mid-level workstation builders out there with great reliability and good >> warranties. Your justification is fine, I'm not here to tell you how to >> spend your money. But your comparison is simply not accurate if you >> understand computer hardware and benchmarks. >> >> >> On Sat, Dec 21, 2013 at 5:10 PM, James Culbertson = wrote: >> >> I'm looking at buying a 6 core base processor, 512GB SSD, 32GB RAM, and >> dual D700s (and AppleCare) for about $5500 + tax. Thunderbolt peripheral= s >> extra of course. >> >> From what I can see an equivalent cost workstation PC isn't all that >> different. Building one yourself is cheaper I assume but that's still no= t >> really worth the time based on my hourly/daily rate. >> >> Then there is the cost of equivalent GPUs on the PC side. As I understan= d >> it a D700 is pretty equivalent to a W9000 at over $3000/GPU. But even th= e >> D300 is a pretty good deal. Someone correct me if I am wrong here. >> >> In any case, if there is a couple of hundred dollar premium (GPUs aside) >> for having what I personally consider a superior system (knowing full we= ll >> that what each of us considers a superior system varies immensely) and I >> can pay for it on average with about 2 weeks of work... well, what's the >> debate really about? >> >> James >> >> >> On Dec 20, 2013, at 12:11 PM, S=F8ren Christensen wrote: >> >> >> I was trying to configure a HP Z workstation and a Boxx workstation with >> the same specs (cpu, gfx card etc)as the new mac pro. >> They ticked in between 38-51% more expensive than a new mac pro. With >> normal sata6 ssdnand with smaller category gfx cards (And off course pc= ie >> slots). >> With one gfx card they where still expensiverl... >> I find it quite odd that people are ranting about how expensive the mac >> is maxed out when pc counterparts cost the same or a lot more for the sa= me >> configuration. >> >> In my case the mac pro comes as a blessing and the form factor is very >> welcome. I do a lot of live visuals and virtual scenography where gpu >> performance and multiple (more than 3) outputs is a must. And super fast >> ssd speeds to handle xx amounts of realtime hd video layers a necessity. >> This small wine-cooler-look-a-like design (Bodum, anyone?) fits in the >> hand luggage. Touring with mac pros has become fun again :-) >> >> Looking forward to see some real world cpu and gpu tests. What has been >> clear for a long time is that gpu power is the new 'black'. Lets hope th= at >> the all-in bet on opencl pays off. >> >> >> Cheers, >> S=F8ren >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> |||| DESILENCE STUDIO >> |||| www.dslnc.com - motion & interactivity >> |||| +34 93 268 0953 / +34 61 555 9963 (mobile) >> >> |||| SOCIAL >> ||| >> >> -- >> _____________________________ >> VFX & Motion Graphic Artist >> teddygage dot com >> > > > -- > not getting enough of my blather? > check out http://flabbyironman.blogspot.com > or my portfolio at http://behmcreative.com > > --=20 _____________________________ VFX & Motion Graphic Artist teddygage dot com --089e0149cedcc0c6f304ee166120 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Im not trying to bully anyone. I thought what I said was pretty straightfor= ward. Im sorry if it came off that way. I do have strong opinions. I will t= ry to tone it down. I apologize.=A0

On Saturday, December 21, 2013, = Brian Behm wrote:
Teddy, has anyone ever told you that you wob= ble on the line between speaking your mind and being=A0a bully?

There's certainly room for talking about the pros and cons, but yo= u pretty regularly get aggressive and negative. Take a deep breath.=A0

You've often got really=A0valuable thi= ngs to say,=A0but you need to check your tone. It can be pretty off putting= .

Brian Behm


On Satur= day, December 21, 2013, Teddy Gage wrote:
=A0 =A0 =A0James, you can d= o whatever you want, but don't misrepresent the facts. A custom PC with= similar render numbers on many benchmarks than your new mac pro will actua= lly run you closer to $1,200-1,500. You could literally buy three hex-core = computers for the price of that single mac pro. In terms of render power, t= hat's a far cry from "a couple hundred dollars" difference.= =A0Yes the Pro has many bespoke custom parts. But they are more or=A0less m= atched to 90% by regular high end PC components. For example nobody "n= eeds" ECC RAM at 200% markup or Xeon-class chips at 300% markup. Regul= ar DDR4 RAM and i7 chips are just as good, if not faster, in many cases.=A0=

=A0 =A0 =A0You don't have to build it yourself, and you = don't have to buy it from Dell or HP, who also charge a hefty markup cl= oser to Apple's, which is where a lot of these inaccurate numbers are c= oming from. There are tons of mid-level workstation builders out there with= great reliability and good warranties. Your justification is fine, I'm= not here to tell you how to spend your money. But your comparison is simpl= y not accurate if you understand computer hardware and benchmarks.=A0


On Sat, Dec 21, 2013 at= 5:10 PM, James Culbertson <albion@speakeasy.net> wrote:
I'm looking at buying= =A0a 6 core base processor, 512= GB SSD, 32GB RAM, and dual D700s (and AppleCare) for about $5500 + tax. Thu= nderbolt peripherals extra of course.

From what I can see an equivalent cost workstation PC isn't all that = different. Building one yourself is cheaper I assume but that's still n= ot really worth the time based on my hourly/daily rate.

Then there is the cost of equivalent GPUs on the PC side. As I understand= it a D700 is pretty equivalent to a W9000 at over $3000/GPU. But even the = D300 is a pretty good deal. Someone correct me if I am wrong here.

In any case, if there is a couple of hundred dollar premium (GPUs aside) = for having what I personally consider a superior system (knowing full well = that what each of us considers a superior system varies immensely) and I ca= n pay for it on average with about 2 weeks of work... well, what's the = debate really about?

James

=

On Dec 20, 2013, at 12:11 PM, S=F8ren Chris= tensen wrote:


I was trying to configure a HP Z workstation and a Bo= xx workstation with the same specs (cpu, gfx card etc)as the new mac pro.
They ticked in between 38-51% more expensive than a new mac pro. With = normal sata6 ssdnand =A0with smaller category gfx cards (And off course pci= e slots).
With one gfx card they where still expensiverl...=
I find it quite odd that people are ranting about how expensive t= he mac is maxed out when pc counterparts cost the same or a lot more for th= e same configuration.

In my case the mac pro comes as a blessing and the form factor is very= welcome. I do a lot of live visuals and virtual scenography where gpu perf= ormance and multiple (more than 3) outputs is a must. And super fast ssd sp= eeds to handle xx amounts of realtime hd video layers a necessity. This sma= ll wine-cooler-look-a-like =A0design (Bodum, anyone?) fits in the hand lugg= age. Touring with mac pros has become fun again :-)

Looking forward to see some real world cpu and gpu test= s. What has been clear for a long time is that gpu power is the new 'bl= ack'. Lets hope that the all-in bet on opencl pays off.


Cheers,
S=F8ren






--
_____________________________
VFX & M= otion Graphic Artist
teddygage dot com


--
not getting enough of my blather?
chec= k out http:= //flabbyironman.blogspot.com
or my portfolio at http://behmcreative.com



--
________= _____________________
VFX &= ; Motion Graphic Artist
teddygage dot com

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