Return-Path: Received: from [207.46.163.210] (HELO na01-bl2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com) by media-motion.tv (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2.10) with ESMTP-TLS id 5329638 for AE-List@media-motion.tv; Fri, 27 Dec 2013 04:40:30 +0100 Received: from CO1PR06MB265.namprd06.prod.outlook.com (10.141.71.15) by CO1PR06MB267.namprd06.prod.outlook.com (10.141.71.19) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.842.7; Fri, 27 Dec 2013 03:43:21 +0000 Received: from CO1PR06MB265.namprd06.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.7.200]) by CO1PR06MB265.namprd06.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.7.200]) with mapi id 15.00.0842.003; Fri, 27 Dec 2013 03:43:20 +0000 From: Stephen van Vuuren To: After Effects Mail List Subject: RE: [AE] (OT) New Mac Pro - Who's getting it? Thread-Topic: [AE] (OT) New Mac Pro - Who's getting it? Thread-Index: AQHPAq4O1JVDJ53Mb0Op7ybwYl3BVZpnWhiw Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2013 03:43:18 +0000 Message-ID: <35c550eaad8548ad9afa07df77d18614@CO1PR06MB265.namprd06.prod.outlook.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [24.163.5.74] x-forefront-prvs: 0073BFEF03 x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM;SFS:(10019001)(50834001)(377454003)(13464003)(51704005)(189002)(199002)(24454002)(11905935001)(63696002)(50986001)(47976001)(15202345003)(47736001)(87936001)(49866001)(81342001)(2656002)(80976001)(4396001)(54316002)(74316001)(59766001)(79102001)(77982001)(81542001)(16236675002)(87266001)(56816005)(51856001)(83072002)(74502001)(19580395003)(74876001)(15975445006)(19609705001)(47446002)(69226001)(76482001)(54356001)(85306002)(76796001)(76786001)(56776001)(46102001)(76576001)(19300405004)(74662001)(80022001)(65816001)(53806001)(81816001)(90146001)(15395725003)(66066001)(77096001)(33646001)(19580405001)(81686001)(83322001)(85852003)(74366001)(74706001)(31966008)(24736002);DIR:OUT;SFP:1102;SCL:1;SRVR:CO1PR06MB267;H:CO1PR06MB265.namprd06.prod.outlook.com;CLIP:24.163.5.74;FPR:;RD:InfoNoRecords;MX:1;A:1;LANG:en; Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_35c550eaad8548ad9afa07df77d18614CO1PR06MB265namprd06pro_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: sv2studios.com --_000_35c550eaad8548ad9afa07df77d18614CO1PR06MB265namprd06pro_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >. Is there any chip that has come out on the consumer side that can challe= nge the hex-core 3930K in price :: performance yet? Good question. I only have a mild overclock (4.2) on my current 3930 to kee= p my system quiet and 64GB memory running. This second station will be upgrade my current NLE/Secondary AE box. It's a= n old Core 2 Quad maxed at 16GB of RAM that is having trouble with 4K video= much less assembling my 6K TIFF sequences and I really need it handle the = finishing both audio and visuals. It's been O/C'd to 3.2 for over 4 years now but I'm going to move it replac= e an even older Core 2 DAW and build a new system in its spot - hex core, 6= 4GB RAM, sticking with Win7 I think as well. The 4930K is considerably more power efficient and 3 to 5% faster but repor= ts say a little more inconsistent in overclocks. But I'm not pushing my O/C= 's that hard so still on fence if it's worth $150 extra. Unfortunately Haswell-E 8-cores are not to Q3 - that's what I would love bu= t too late for the film. http://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-8-core-hasw= ell-e-x99-ivy-bridge-e,25525.html > What are you going with for graphics? Still adrift on this one. My primary NLE is still Vegas which is Open CL ba= sed, but I use Premiere CC some though not as much as I thought. Plus it mu= st drive at least 1, possibly 2 4K displays plus DVI and HDMI. I've been looking at the Titan, 290X, Quadro 5000 and W7000/8000 - I would = like 10-bit support in Photoshop but not finding reliable card/monitor comb= os that people verify are working. I will keep you posted. stephen van vuuren 336.202.4777 http://www.insaturnsrings.com/ http://www.sv2dcp.com/ http://www.sv2studios.com/ A film is - or should be - more like music than like fiction. It should be = a progression of moods and feelings. The theme, what's behind the emotion, = the meaning, all that comes later. -Stanley Kubrick From: After Effects Mail List [mailto:AE-List@media-motion.tv] On Behalf Of= Teddy Gage Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2013 9:48 PM To: After Effects Mail List Subject: Re: [AE] (OT) New Mac Pro - Who's getting it? Eloquent and apt. Everything is hearsay until we see real world benchmarks.= Steven I'd love to hear about your build in a new thread. Is there any chi= p that has come out on the consumer side that can challenge the hex-core 39= 30K in price :: performance yet? What are you going with for graphics? On Thursday, December 26, 2013, Stephen van Vuuren wrote: > Here's an interesting article on the value proposition of the new Mac Pro= . Turns out it's tough to build a comparable machine for the price. - Unfortunately, that's a lazy and poorly researched article. The new Mac Pro= is an intriguing mystery of parts. I'm currently researching parts for a new build to help finish my film and = was curious about the Mac Pro parts (FirePro GPUs, PCI SSD etc.). The huge = dollar issue with the MacPro is GPU and getting good information about exac= tly what they has not been easy. But I found this published a couple of days ago: http://wccftech.com/genera= tion-amd-professional-gpu-arrives-firepro-d700-leads-pack-35-teraflops-comp= ute/ They claim this is confirmed but I would still not say this is 100%. But it= does further open up the mystery of the GPU parts. They appear to be cut d= own, TDP reduced parts to work in the new case. The focus on dual parts als= o appears part of the heat/power management issue to balance thermal thrott= ling that invariably would be part of such a design. Apple appears to have made some deal possibly including custom manufacturin= g that may allow them to get parts that don't spec out for higher TDP use (= like Intel does with hex vs. quad core parts) and using them here to give t= he Mac Pro a GPU price advantage you can't match on off-the-shelf parts - o= f course OpenCL performance will need to be part of question as CUDA is not= an option. So they are not exactly like any parts you can buy. Additionally, they like= ly will have a unique set of drivers, so until someone can actually careful= ly benchmark their OpenCL performance, it's near impossible to price compar= ison a Mac Pro right now. And it appears for any configuration an "apple to= apple" :) price/build comparison is not possible even with just the GPU. The PCI SSD is also a benchmark test waiting to be done to see if it fact d= oes deliver the performance difference claimed - but given the impossibilit= y of putting in a variety of parts for testing in a the new Mac Pro, this a= lso will likely be somewhat inaccurate. But I'm not sure PCI SSD vs current= SSD options, including a RAID 1 SSD ,offers that much boost. And the limit= ations of the storage design in the new Mac Pro introduce a number of other= issues related to expandability, flexibility etc. Plus the article does not actually build anything nor benchmark either the = DIY system or the Mac Pro - so all the valuations are essentially meaningle= ss. It's just an internet shopping cart article. The one published Geekbenc= h benchmark that was out there is not exactly blazing - and the only thing = that should matter is actual application performance. Until that is tested = - an article like this does not tell you anything other than Apple used a l= ot of custom, proprietary parts that you can't buy off the shelf. Throwing money at the effort to mimic the Mac Pro parts list to "prove" the= MacPro is a "value" seems like a waste of time - if you did this with an i= Phone, you would get a similar result. The real question is what Mac Pro's = real world performance in various configs are and what parts are required t= o match it. My DIY builds are set to give real world performance that matches or exceed= Xenon based setups at half the price. That's perfectly doable on the CPU s= ide. The Mac Pro may have GPU advantage based on essentially cutting down w= orkstation cards that we've always expected were overpriced - but that inf= ormation has not been tested and 100% proved yet. stephen van vuuren 336.202.4777 http://www.insaturnsrings.com/ http://www.sv2dcp.com/ http://www.sv2studios.com/ A film is - or should be - more like music than like fiction. It should be = a progression of moods and feelings. The theme, what's behind the emotion, = the meaning, all that comes later. -Stanley Kubrick -----Original Message----- From: After Effects Mail List [mailto:AE-List@media-motion.tv= ] On Behalf Of Dave Bittner Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2013 9:46 AM To: After Effects Mail List Subject: Re: [AE] (OT) New Mac Pro - Who's getting it? Here's an interesting article on the value proposition of the new Mac Pro. = Turns out it's tough to build a comparable machine for the price. - On Dec 23, 2013, at 1:20PM, Dave Bittner > wrote: > I've switched our main edit suite system to a 27" i7 iMac after realizing= that it renders about three times faster than the 2008 Mac Pro it's replac= ing. I've got a 30" monitor hooked up to it, and a fast external RAID via a= cheap Thunderbolt to SATA adapter. We're running AE, FCPX and Maya on it, = primarily, and for what we do it's plenty fast. (We are rarely under tight = delivery deadlines where rendering speed would make or break us. In fact, t= he biggest bottleneck these days seems to be h.264 encoding for delivery.) > > As for the new Mac Pro, if you need the speed it doesn't seem the price s= hould make all that much difference. Even if you replace it after two years= , a couple of grand difference in price shouldn't break the bank for an act= ive shop with a decent number of projects coming through. It's amazing to m= e that after all these years people are still shocked - Shocked! - that the= re's a premium for Mac OS workstations. For our small shop it's worth it, s= ince we know the Mac OS and know how to troubleshoot it. > > Interesting times, with all of these incredibly fast machines for choose = from. Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go play Marathon on my Quadra 7= 00... > +---End of message---+ To unsubscribe send any message to > +---End of message---+ To unsubscribe send any message to > -- _____________________________ VFX & Motion Graphic Artist teddygage dot com --_000_35c550eaad8548ad9afa07df77d18614CO1PR06MB265namprd06pro_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

>. Is there any= chip that has come out on the consumer side that can challenge t= he hex-core 3930K in price :: performance yet?

 <= /p>

Good question. I only hav= e a mild overclock (4.2) on my current 3930 to keep my system quiet and 64G= B memory running.

 <= /p>

This second station will = be upgrade my current NLE/Secondary AE box. It’s an old Core 2 Quad m= axed at 16GB of RAM that is having trouble with 4K video much less assembling my 6K TIFF sequences and I really need it handle the finis= hing both audio and visuals.

 <= /p>

It’s been O/C’= ;d to 3.2 for over 4 years now but I’m going to move it replace an ev= en older Core 2 DAW and build a new system in its spot – hex core, 64= GB RAM, sticking with Win7 I think as well.

 <= /p>

The 4930K is considerably= more power efficient and 3 to 5% faster but reports say a little more inco= nsistent in overclocks. But I’m not pushing my O/C’s that hard so still on fence if it’s worth $150 extra.

 <= /p>

Unfortunately Haswell-E 8= -cores are not to Q3 – that’s what I would love but too late fo= r the film. http://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-8-core-haswell-e-x99-ivy-bridge-e,25= 525.html

 <= /p>

> What are you = going with for graphics?

Still adrift on this one.= My primary NLE is still Vegas which is Open CL based, but I use Premiere C= C some though not as much as I thought. Plus it must drive at least 1, possibly 2 4K displays plus DVI and HDMI.

 <= /p>

I’ve been looking a= t the Titan, 290X, Quadro 5000 and W7000/8000 – I would like 10-bit s= upport in Photoshop but not finding reliable card/monitor combos that people verify are working.


I will keep you posted.

 <= /p>

stephen van vuuren

336.202.4777

 

http://www.insaturnsrings.com/

http://www.sv2dcp.com/

http://www.sv2studios.com/

 

A film is – or s= hould be – more like music than like fiction. It should be a progress= ion of moods and feelings. The theme, what’s behind the emotion, the meaning, all that comes later.

–Stanley Kubrick=

 <= /p>

From: After = Effects Mail List [mailto:AE-List@media-motion.tv] On Behalf Of Teddy Gage
Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2013 9:48 PM
To: After Effects Mail List
Subject: Re: [AE] (OT) New Mac Pro - Who's getting it?

 

Eloquent and apt. Everything is hearsay until we see= real world benchmarks. Steven I'd love to hear about your build in a = new thread. Is there any chip that has come out on the consumer side&n= bsp;that can challenge the hex-core 3930K in price :: performance yet? What are you going with for graphics?

On Thursday, December 26, 2013, Stephen van Vuuren wrote:

> Here's an interesting article on the value prop= osition of the new Mac Pro. Turns out it's tough to build a comparable mach= ine for the price. -

Unfortunately, that's a lazy and poorly researched article. The new Mac Pro= is an intriguing mystery of parts.

I'm currently researching parts for a new build to help finish my film and = was curious about the Mac Pro parts (FirePro GPUs, PCI SSD etc.). The huge = dollar issue with the MacPro is GPU and getting good information about exac= tly what they has not been easy.

But I found this published a couple of days ago: http://wccftech.com/generation-amd-professional-gpu-arrives-firepro-d700-le= ads-pack-35-teraflops-compute/

They claim this is confirmed but I would still not say this is 100%. But it= does further open up the mystery of the GPU parts. They appear to be cut d= own, TDP reduced parts to work in the new case. The focus on dual parts als= o appears part of the heat/power management issue to balance thermal throttling that invariably would be pa= rt of such a design.

Apple appears to have made some deal possibly including custom manufacturin= g that may allow them to get parts that don't spec out for higher TDP use (= like Intel does with hex vs. quad core parts) and using them here to give t= he Mac Pro a GPU price advantage you can't match on off-the-shelf parts - of course OpenCL performance will= need to be part of question as CUDA is not an option.

So they are not exactly like any parts you can buy. Additionally, they like= ly will have a unique set of drivers, so until someone can actually careful= ly benchmark their OpenCL performance, it's near impossible to price compar= ison a Mac Pro right now. And it appears for any configuration an "apple to apple" :) price/build= comparison is not possible even with just the GPU.

The PCI SSD is also a benchmark test waiting to be done to see if it fact d= oes deliver the performance difference claimed - but given the impossibilit= y of putting in a variety of parts for testing in a the new Mac Pro, this a= lso will likely be somewhat inaccurate. But I'm not sure PCI SSD vs current SSD options, including a RAID 1 SSD ,o= ffers that much boost. And the limitations of the storage design in the new= Mac Pro introduce a number of other issues related to expandability, flexi= bility etc.

Plus the article does not actually build anything nor benchmark either the = DIY system or the Mac Pro - so all the valuations are essentially meaningle= ss. It's just an internet shopping cart article. The one published Geekbenc= h benchmark that was out there is not exactly blazing - and the only thing that should matter is actual appl= ication performance. Until that is tested - an article like this does not t= ell you anything other than Apple used a lot of custom, proprietary parts t= hat you can't buy off the shelf.

Throwing money at the effort to mimic the Mac Pro parts list to "prove= " the MacPro is a "value" seems like a waste of time - if yo= u did this with an iPhone, you would get a similar result. The real questio= n is what Mac Pro's real world performance in various configs are and what parts are required to match it.

My DIY builds are set to give real world performance that matches or exceed= Xenon based setups at half the price. That's perfectly doable on the CPU s= ide. The Mac Pro may have GPU advantage based on essentially cutting down w= orkstation cards that we've always expected were overpriced  - but that information has not been tested = and 100% proved yet.

stephen van vuuren
336.202.4777

http://www.ins= aturnsrings.com/
http://www.sv2dcp.com/=
http://www.sv2stud= ios.com/

A film is - or should be - more like music than like fiction. It should be = a progression of moods and feelings. The theme, what's behind the emotion, = the meaning, all that comes later.
-Stanley Kubrick

-----Original Message-----
From: After Effects Mail List [mailto:AE-List@medi= a-motion.tv] On Behalf Of Dave Bittner
Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2013 9:46 AM
To: After Effects Mail List
Subject: Re: [AE] (OT) New Mac Pro - Who's getting it?

Here's an interesting article on the value proposition of the new Mac Pro. = Turns out it's tough to build a comparable machine for the price. -

<http://ww= w.electronista.com/articles/13/12/24/does.better.in.some.areas.but.cant.com= pete.on.cost.or.specs/>


On Dec 23, 2013, at 1:20PM, Dave Bittner <dave@= pixelworkshop.com> wrote:

> I've switched our main edit suite system to a 27" i7 iMac after r= ealizing that it renders about three times faster than the 2008 Mac Pro it'= s replacing. I've got a 30" monitor hooked up to it, and a fast extern= al RAID via a cheap Thunderbolt to SATA adapter. We're running AE, FCPX and Maya on it, primarily, and for what we do it's = plenty fast. (We are rarely under tight delivery deadlines where rendering = speed would make or break us. In fact, the biggest bottleneck these days se= ems to be h.264 encoding for delivery.)
>
> As for the new Mac Pro, if you need the speed it doesn't seem the pric= e should make all that much difference. Even if you replace it after two ye= ars, a couple of grand difference in price shouldn't break the bank for an = active shop with a decent number of projects coming through. It's amazing to me that after all these years peo= ple are still shocked - Shocked! - that there's a premium for Mac OS workst= ations. For our small shop it's worth it, since we know the Mac OS and know= how to troubleshoot it.
>
> Interesting times, with all of these incredibly fast machines for choo= se from. Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go play Marathon on my Quadr= a 700...
>


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____________________= _________

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teddygage dot com

 

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