Return-Path: Received: from mail-qc0-f171.google.com ([209.85.216.171] verified) by media-motion.tv (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2.10) with ESMTP-TLS id 5330161 for AE-List@media-motion.tv; Fri, 27 Dec 2013 19:18:03 +0100 Received: by mail-qc0-f171.google.com with SMTP id c9so8849593qcz.2 for ; Fri, 27 Dec 2013 10:21:16 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=69EKuP3RLAYmxZOjTF6Rv2GYB9YxmAXzBlUvYQz11NI=; b=tMDPYqUjVjfYXE7oXUMAwjgBGUGqtjXhZeijRF6bqeUBIs/X6VgLi1CylOzbaqx8X+ qHuBTE1l+80ruYbCTI3+BiKwGzbm4thObzOII8jvbQjhg4+m3ealAsa5MSdMg9n9EdB5 Pwhl95u/84TAsYjZw3ahTiAjU+HQW/gvS39Z/Mu3BI8N2nA0yeE47NX3bUDAuTZ4DWSe TDJnOJFQYbT3MHSpoPRLgeiTuqbXbPvbvhWKJ0mLXb5KLL9jYLcbWy9bZIMeLaS74/vh uizoG6G7OnqokrgUle/xWWEkj4k1N3u1+V2FQ9yJDGJ/KowglJOprfA4d7hc1CXx7C41 iMNA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.224.167.139 with SMTP id q11mr42023488qay.71.1388168476016; Fri, 27 Dec 2013 10:21:16 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.96.216.132 with HTTP; Fri, 27 Dec 2013 10:21:15 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.96.216.132 with HTTP; Fri, 27 Dec 2013 10:21:15 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2013 13:21:15 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [AE] (OT) New Mac Pro - Who's getting it? From: Teddy Gage To: After Effects Mail List Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e01294f4ae6dd6804ee882805 --089e01294f4ae6dd6804ee882805 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable For multiple 4k monitors and good CUDA performance i'd have to recommend the Titan. Prices have dropped a lot, and the 6gb ram is really nice overhead. It's also the only card in the family that supports four monitors and CUDA I think. I have three 2k monitors and a 22hd cintiq hooked up to one and it works great. And they can work in tandem for expandability for boosting headless cuda . It will be interesting to see how the i7 8 core will perform in terms of overclocking and heat dispersion. sometimes fewer faster cores have an advantage depending on the task. On Dec 26, 2013 10:45 PM, "Stephen van Vuuren" wrote: > >. Is there any chip that has come out on the consumer side that can > challenge the hex-core 3930K in price :: performance yet? > > > > Good question. I only have a mild overclock (4.2) on my current 3930 to > keep my system quiet and 64GB memory running. > > > > This second station will be upgrade my current NLE/Secondary AE box. It= =92s > an old Core 2 Quad maxed at 16GB of RAM that is having trouble with 4K > video much less assembling my 6K TIFF sequences and I really need it hand= le > the finishing both audio and visuals. > > > > It=92s been O/C=92d to 3.2 for over 4 years now but I=92m going to move i= t > replace an even older Core 2 DAW and build a new system in its spot =96 h= ex > core, 64GB RAM, sticking with Win7 I think as well. > > > > The 4930K is considerably more power efficient and 3 to 5% faster but > reports say a little more inconsistent in overclocks. But I=92m not pushi= ng > my O/C=92s that hard so still on fence if it=92s worth $150 extra. > > > > Unfortunately Haswell-E 8-cores are not to Q3 =96 that=92s what I would l= ove > but too late for the film. > http://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-8-core-haswell-e-x99-ivy-bridge-e,= 25525.html > > > > > What are you going with for graphics? > > Still adrift on this one. My primary NLE is still Vegas which is Open CL > based, but I use Premiere CC some though not as much as I thought. Plus i= t > must drive at least 1, possibly 2 4K displays plus DVI and HDMI. > > > > I=92ve been looking at the Titan, 290X, Quadro 5000 and W7000/8000 =96 I = would > like 10-bit support in Photoshop but not finding reliable card/monitor > combos that people verify are working. > > > I will keep you posted. > > > > *stephen van vuuren* > > 336.202.4777 > > > > *http://www.insaturnsrings.com/ * > > *http://www.sv2dcp.com/ * > > *http://www.sv2studios.com/ * > > > > *A film is =96 or should be =96 more like music than like fiction. It sho= uld > be a progression of moods and feelings. The theme, what=92s behind the > emotion, the meaning, all that comes later.* > > =96*Stanley Kubrick* > > > > *From:* After Effects Mail List [mailto:AE-List@media-motion.tv] *On > Behalf Of *Teddy Gage > *Sent:* Thursday, December 26, 2013 9:48 PM > *To:* After Effects Mail List > *Subject:* Re: [AE] (OT) New Mac Pro - Who's getting it? > > > > Eloquent and apt. Everything is hearsay until we see real > world benchmarks. Steven I'd love to hear about your build in a new threa= d. > Is there any chip that has come out on the consumer side that can challen= ge > the hex-core 3930K in price :: performance yet? What are you going with f= or > graphics? > > On Thursday, December 26, 2013, Stephen van Vuuren wrote: > > > Here's an interesting article on the value proposition of the new Mac > Pro. Turns out it's tough to build a comparable machine for the price. - > > Unfortunately, that's a lazy and poorly researched article. The new Mac > Pro is an intriguing mystery of parts. > > I'm currently researching parts for a new build to help finish my film an= d > was curious about the Mac Pro parts (FirePro GPUs, PCI SSD etc.). The hug= e > dollar issue with the MacPro is GPU and getting good information about > exactly what they has not been easy. > > But I found this published a couple of days ago: > http://wccftech.com/generation-amd-professional-gpu-arrives-firepro-d700-= leads-pack-35-teraflops-compute/ > > They claim this is confirmed but I would still not say this is 100%. But > it does further open up the mystery of the GPU parts. They appear to be c= ut > down, TDP reduced parts to work in the new case. The focus on dual parts > also appears part of the heat/power management issue to balance thermal > throttling that invariably would be part of such a design. > > Apple appears to have made some deal possibly including custom > manufacturing that may allow them to get parts that don't spec out for > higher TDP use (like Intel does with hex vs. quad core parts) and using > them here to give the Mac Pro a GPU price advantage you can't match on > off-the-shelf parts - of course OpenCL performance will need to be part o= f > question as CUDA is not an option. > > So they are not exactly like any parts you can buy. Additionally, they > likely will have a unique set of drivers, so until someone can actually > carefully benchmark their OpenCL performance, it's near impossible to pri= ce > comparison a Mac Pro right now. And it appears for any configuration an > "apple to apple" :) price/build comparison is not possible even with just > the GPU. > > The PCI SSD is also a benchmark test waiting to be done to see if it fact > does deliver the performance difference claimed - but given the > impossibility of putting in a variety of parts for testing in a the new M= ac > Pro, this also will likely be somewhat inaccurate. But I'm not sure PCI S= SD > vs current SSD options, including a RAID 1 SSD ,offers that much boost. A= nd > the limitations of the storage design in the new Mac Pro introduce a numb= er > of other issues related to expandability, flexibility etc. > > Plus the article does not actually build anything nor benchmark either th= e > DIY system or the Mac Pro - so all the valuations are essentially > meaningless. It's just an internet shopping cart article. The one publish= ed > Geekbench benchmark that was out there is not exactly blazing - and the > only thing that should matter is actual application performance. Until th= at > is tested - an article like this does not tell you anything other than > Apple used a lot of custom, proprietary parts that you can't buy off the > shelf. > > Throwing money at the effort to mimic the Mac Pro parts list to "prove" > the MacPro is a "value" seems like a waste of time - if you did this with > an iPhone, you would get a similar result. The real question is what Mac > Pro's real world performance in various configs are and what parts are > required to match it. > > My DIY builds are set to give real world performance that matches or > exceed Xenon based setups at half the price. That's perfectly doable on t= he > CPU side. The Mac Pro may have GPU advantage based on essentially cutting > down workstation cards that we've always expected were overpriced - but > that information has not been tested and 100% proved yet. > > stephen van vuuren > 336.202.4777 > > http://www.insaturnsrings.com/ > http://www.sv2dcp.com/ > http://www.sv2studios.com/ > > A film is - or should be - more like music than like fiction. It should b= e > a progression of moods and feelings. The theme, what's behind the emotion= , > the meaning, all that comes later. > -Stanley Kubrick > > -----Original Message----- > From: After Effects Mail List [mailto:AE-List@media-motion.tv] On Behalf > Of Dave Bittner > Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2013 9:46 AM > To: After Effects Mail List > Subject: Re: [AE] (OT) New Mac Pro - Who's getting it? > > Here's an interesting article on the value proposition of the new Mac Pro= . > Turns out it's tough to build a comparable machine for the price. - > > < > http://www.electronista.com/articles/13/12/24/does.better.in.some.areas.b= ut.cant.compete.on.cost.or.specs/ > > > > > On Dec 23, 2013, at 1:20PM, Dave Bittner wrote: > > > I've switched our main edit suite system to a 27" i7 iMac after > realizing that it renders about three times faster than the 2008 Mac Pro > it's replacing. I've got a 30" monitor hooked up to it, and a fast extern= al > RAID via a cheap Thunderbolt to SATA adapter. We're running AE, FCPX and > Maya on it, primarily, and for what we do it's plenty fast. (We are rarel= y > under tight delivery deadlines where rendering speed would make or break > us. In fact, the biggest bottleneck these days seems to be h.264 encoding > for delivery.) > > > > As for the new Mac Pro, if you need the speed it doesn't seem the price > should make all that much difference. Even if you replace it after two > years, a couple of grand difference in price shouldn't break the bank for > an active shop with a decent number of projects coming through. It's > amazing to me that after all these years people are still shocked - > Shocked! - that there's a premium for Mac OS workstations. For our small > shop it's worth it, since we know the Mac OS and know how to troubleshoot > it. > > > > Interesting times, with all of these incredibly fast machines for choos= e > from. Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go play Marathon on my Quadra > 700... > > > > > +---End of message---+ > To unsubscribe send any message to > > +---End of message---+ > To unsubscribe send any message to > > > > -- > > _____________________________ > > VFX & Motion Graphic Artist > teddygage dot com > > > --089e01294f4ae6dd6804ee882805 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

For multiple 4k monitors and good CUDA performance i'd h= ave to recommend the Titan. Prices have dropped a lot, and the 6gb ram is r= eally nice overhead. It's also the only card in the family that support= s four monitors and CUDA I think. I have three 2k monitors and a 22hd cinti= q hooked up to one and it works great. And they can work in tandem for expa= ndability for boosting headless cuda . It will be interesting to see how th= e i7 8 core will perform in terms of overclocking and heat dispersion. some= times fewer faster cores have an advantage depending on the task.

On Dec 26, 2013 10:45 PM, "Stephen van Vuur= en" <stephen@sv2studios.c= om> wrote:

>. Is there any= chip=A0that has come out on the consumer side=A0that can challenge the hex= -core=A03930K=A0in price :: performance yet?<= /u>

=A0<= /p>

Good question. I only hav= e a mild overclock (4.2) on my current 3930 to keep my system quiet and 64G= B memory running.

=A0<= /p>

This second station will = be upgrade my current NLE/Secondary AE box. It=92s an old Core 2 Quad maxed= at 16GB of RAM that is having trouble with 4K video much less assembling my 6K TIFF sequences and I really need it handle the finis= hing both audio and visuals.

=A0<= /p>

It=92s been O/C=92d to 3.= 2 for over 4 years now but I=92m going to move it replace an even older Cor= e 2 DAW and build a new system in its spot =96 hex core, 64GB RAM, sticking with Win7 I think as well.

=A0<= /p>

The 4930K is considerably= more power efficient and 3 to 5% faster but reports say a little more inco= nsistent in overclocks. But I=92m not pushing my O/C=92s that hard so still on fence if it=92s worth $150 extra.

=A0<= /p>

Unfortunately Haswell-E 8= -cores are not to Q3 =96 that=92s what I would love but too late for the fi= lm. http://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-8-core-haswell-e-x99-ivy-bridge-e,25= 525.html

=A0<= /p>

> What are you = going with for graphics?

Still adrift on this one.= My primary NLE is still Vegas which is Open CL based, but I use Premiere C= C some though not as much as I thought. Plus it must drive at least 1, possibly 2 4K displays plus DVI and HDMI.=

=A0<= /p>

I=92ve been looking at th= e Titan, 290X, Quadro 5000 and W7000/8000 =96 I would like 10-bit support i= n Photoshop but not finding reliable card/monitor combos that people verify are working.


I will keep you posted.

=A0<= /p>

stephen van vuuren<= /u>

336.202.4777=

=A0

http://www.insaturnsrings.com/

http://www.sv2dcp.com/

http://www= .sv2studios.com/

=A0

A film is =96 or shoul= d be =96 more like music than like fiction. It should be a progression of m= oods and feelings. The theme, what=92s behind the emotion, the meaning, all that comes later.

=96Stanley Kubrick=

=A0<= /p>

From: After = Effects Mail List [mailto:AE-List@media-motion.tv] On Behalf Of Teddy Gage
Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2013 9:48 PM
To: After Effects Mail List
Subject: Re: [AE] (OT) New Mac Pro - Who's getting it?=

=A0

Eloquent and apt. Everything is hearsay until we see= real world=A0benchmarks. Steven I'd love to hear about your build in a= new thread. Is there any chip=A0that has come out on the consumer side=A0t= hat can challenge the hex-core=A03930K=A0in price :: performance yet? What are you going with for graphics?

On Thursday, December 26, 2013, Stephen van Vuuren wrote:

> Here's an interesting article on the value = proposition of the new Mac Pro. Turns out it's tough to build a compara= ble machine for the price. -

Unfortunately, that's a lazy and poorly researched article. The new Mac= Pro is an intriguing mystery of parts.

I'm currently researching parts for a new build to help finish my film = and was curious about the Mac Pro parts (FirePro GPUs, PCI SSD etc.). The h= uge dollar issue with the MacPro is GPU and getting good information about = exactly what they has not been easy.

But I found this published a couple of days ago: http://wccftech.com/generation-amd-professional-gpu-arrives-firepro-d700-le= ads-pack-35-teraflops-compute/

They claim this is confirmed but I would still not say this is 100%. But it= does further open up the mystery of the GPU parts. They appear to be cut d= own, TDP reduced parts to work in the new case. The focus on dual parts als= o appears part of the heat/power management issue to balance thermal throttling that invariably would be pa= rt of such a design.

Apple appears to have made some deal possibly including custom manufacturin= g that may allow them to get parts that don't spec out for higher TDP u= se (like Intel does with hex vs. quad core parts) and using them here to gi= ve the Mac Pro a GPU price advantage you can't match on off-the-shelf parts - of course OpenCL performance = will need to be part of question as CUDA is not an option.

So they are not exactly like any parts you can buy. Additionally, they like= ly will have a unique set of drivers, so until someone can actually careful= ly benchmark their OpenCL performance, it's near impossible to price co= mparison a Mac Pro right now. And it appears for any configuration an "apple to apple" :) price/build= comparison is not possible even with just the GPU.

The PCI SSD is also a benchmark test waiting to be done to see if it fact d= oes deliver the performance difference claimed - but given the impossibilit= y of putting in a variety of parts for testing in a the new Mac Pro, this a= lso will likely be somewhat inaccurate. But I'm not sure PCI SSD vs current SSD options, including a RAID 1 SS= D ,offers that much boost. And the limitations of the storage design in the= new Mac Pro introduce a number of other issues related to expandability, f= lexibility etc.

Plus the article does not actually build anything nor benchmark either the = DIY system or the Mac Pro - so all the valuations are essentially meaningle= ss. It's just an internet shopping cart article. The one published Geek= bench benchmark that was out there is not exactly blazing - and the only thing that should matter is actual appl= ication performance. Until that is tested - an article like this does not t= ell you anything other than Apple used a lot of custom, proprietary parts t= hat you can't buy off the shelf.

Throwing money at the effort to mimic the Mac Pro parts list to "prove= " the MacPro is a "value" seems like a waste of time - if yo= u did this with an iPhone, you would get a similar result. The real questio= n is what Mac Pro's real world performance in various configs are and what parts are required to match it.

My DIY builds are set to give real world performance that matches or exceed= Xenon based setups at half the price. That's perfectly doable on the C= PU side. The Mac Pro may have GPU advantage based on essentially cutting do= wn workstation cards that we've always expected were overpriced =A0- but that information has not been tested and= 100% proved yet.

stephen van vuuren
336.2= 02.4777

http://www.ins= aturnsrings.com/
http://www.sv2dcp.com/=
http://www.sv2stud= ios.com/

A film is - or should be - more like music than like fiction. It should be = a progression of moods and feelings. The theme, what's behind the emoti= on, the meaning, all that comes later.
-Stanley Kubrick

-----Original Message-----
From: After Effects Mail List [mailto:AE-List@media-motion.tv] On Be= half Of Dave Bittner
Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2013 9:46 AM
To: After Effects Mail List
Subject: Re: [AE] (OT) New Mac Pro - Who's getting it?

Here's an interesting article on the value proposition of the new Mac P= ro. Turns out it's tough to build a comparable machine for the price. -=

<http://ww= w.electronista.com/articles/13/12/24/does.better.in.some.areas.but.cant.com= pete.on.cost.or.specs/>


On Dec 23, 2013, at 1:20PM, Dave Bittner <dave@pixelworkshop.com&= gt; wrote:

> I've switched our main edit suite system to a 27" i7 iMac aft= er realizing that it renders about three times faster than the 2008 Mac Pro= it's replacing. I've got a 30" monitor hooked up to it, and a= fast external RAID via a cheap Thunderbolt to SATA adapter. We're running AE, FCPX and Maya on it, primarily, and for what we do i= t's plenty fast. (We are rarely under tight delivery deadlines where re= ndering speed would make or break us. In fact, the biggest bottleneck these= days seems to be h.264 encoding for delivery.)
>
> As for the new Mac Pro, if you need the speed it doesn't seem the = price should make all that much difference. Even if you replace it after tw= o years, a couple of grand difference in price shouldn't break the bank= for an active shop with a decent number of projects coming through. It's amazing to me that after all these years= people are still shocked - Shocked! - that there's a premium for Mac O= S workstations. For our small shop it's worth it, since we know the Mac= OS and know how to troubleshoot it.
>
> Interesting times, with all of these incredibly fast machines for choo= se from. Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go play Marathon on = my Quadra 700...
>


+---End of message---+
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--

____________________= _________

VFX & Moti= on Graphic Artist
teddygage dot com

=A0

--089e01294f4ae6dd6804ee882805--