Return-Path: Received: from nk11p00mm-asmtp001.mac.com ([17.158.161.0] verified) by media-motion.tv (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2.10) with ESMTP id 5336994 for AE-List@media-motion.tv; Sun, 05 Jan 2014 03:11:23 +0100 Received: from [192.168.1.68] (99-152-153-100.lightspeed.dllstx.sbcglobal.net [99.152.153.100]) by nk11p00mm-asmtp001.mac.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 7u4-27.08(7.0.4.27.7) 64bit (built Aug 22 2013)) with ESMTPSA id <0MYW003DTOWRZ770@nk11p00mm-asmtp001.mac.com> for AE-List@media-motion.tv; Sun, 05 Jan 2014 02:14:52 +0000 (GMT) X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:5.11.87,1.0.14,0.0.0000 definitions=2014-01-04_03:2014-01-03,2014-01-04,1970-01-01 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 spamscore=0 suspectscore=2 phishscore=0 adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=7.0.1-1308280000 definitions=main-1401040241 From: Jim Curtis Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_21DBE300-4C25-4076-AB00-A6BB20520ECA" Message-id: <4BC0E83E-8280-4379-8103-472254A137EB@me.com> MIME-version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.6 \(1510\)) Subject: Re: [AE] day rates including renting own equipment Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2014 20:14:50 -0600 References: To: After Effects Mail List In-reply-to: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1510) --Apple-Mail=_21DBE300-4C25-4076-AB00-A6BB20520ECA Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 I don't work much on client's sites any more, but I charged $50/day for = my laptop and software, which was often more up to date than my = clients'. Nobody ever complained about that. I charged by the hour, not by day rate, unless the client requested or = demanded it. Hourly is the fairest of all possible methods, although = they can work to your advantage if the days are short. It happens. =20 I had a sweet annual short term gig with a major telecommunications = company that paid me 10 hours often for 4 hours work. Of course, that's = one client in thirty plus years of clients. If the client asks for a volume discount, I just discount my rate. That = way, neither side is at an advantage. I'd charge a minimum per day, for = those times I had to drive in to make a fifteen minute change. Whether = it was a four hour or a one hour minimum depended on what I could get = away with, frankly. Independent production companies got more slack = than the big corporations, who will maximize their advantage at every = opportunity. I rarely charge overtime. More often than not, that's been imposed by = the client, because I was hired on as part of an entire production crew, = who usually charge overtime. For long commutes (over 30 minutes each way), I go on the clock at 30 = minutes into my drive. No mileage. That's a deductible business = expense in the USA. Whatever you do, put your terms in writing (An email will do.), be bold = and self-confident, and be willing to negotiate your terms depending on = how much you want or need the work or how much you enjoy working with = the clients. On Jan 4, 2014, at 6:54 PM, Steve Oakley wrote: > 8hr day ? who gets that ??? 10hrs if you are lucky, but 1.5X after = that. its the 12hr days that are most profitable but don't kill you. >=20 > if the commute is more than an hr each way I'd consider local = accommodations aka workings as local. if the rate is good and you can = find a decent cheap place to stay you might just eat it for a multi day = job. might be cheaper than gas / tolls plus you get better sleep and = less stress... maybe even add an hr of OT each day since you aren't = driving. >=20 > $100/day for software and gear is reasonable for short gigs, but at = some point the client figures out its cheaper for them to buy their own. = keep the money in your pocket and calculate appropriately.=20 >=20 > also to figure : lunch on or off the clock. my rule is under 30 min = its on the clock, especially if its one where you are 1/2 working while = eating. 1hr and they buy, I'll go off clock for that if its good food :) = however you may get chiselers that expect your an hr off. >=20 > S >=20 > On Jan 4, 2014, at 6:10 PM, Phil Spitler wrote: >=20 >> When I freelanced I would charge extra if I brought my own = workstation which was fully loaded with software. I would charge $100 = per day for that. >>=20 >> Make sure you specify an 8 or 10 hour day, I have been burned on that = one before and make sure you know what happens after those hours.... = over time, no over time, weekend rates etc. >>=20 >> Best to get this nailed before you go head first into a project. >>=20 >>=20 >> Phil >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> Phil Spitler | Creative Technologist | Bonfire Labs | t : = 415.394.8200 m : 415.571.3139 >>=20 >> Website | Facebook | LinkedIn >>=20 >> On Jan 4, 2014, at 2:11 PM, Patrix Paste wrote: >>=20 >>> it is a couple years old now but still great info=85. >>>=20 >>> = http://motionographer.com/2011/01/17/motion-graphic-design-census-results/= >>>=20 >>> I don=92t know of any employer who pays for commute time. >>> even if you ride the google bus i don=92t think you paid for the = commute. >>> I could be wrong=85. >>>=20 >>> Just charge more for your equipment in your hourly rate. >>>=20 >>> people are paid by the hour most everywhere I know. >>>=20 >>> a 10 hour day is standard, but that includes two hours of overtime. >>>=20 >>> the sky is the limit. charge what you feel you are worth! >>>=20 >>> -patrick >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> On Jan 4, 2014, at 1:58 PM, Rachel Max wrote: >>>=20 >>>> Oh and also, do you stipulate a maximum number of hours covered in = that day rate? >>>>=20 >>>> (10 hours?) >>>>=20 >>>> Thanks in advance, >>>> Rachel >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> On Jan 4, 2014, at 1:50 PM, Rachel Max wrote: >>>>=20 >>>>> Hi list - is there a current day rate survey out there for Day = Rates for a Senior Level Designer/Animators? >>>>>=20 >>>>> Also, do you charge more if you need to bring your own software = and hardware? >>>>>=20 >>>>> What about for a long/expensive commute? >>>>>=20 >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Rachel >>>>> +---End of message---+ >>>>> To unsubscribe send any message to >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> +---End of message---+ >>>> To unsubscribe send any message to >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> +---End of message---+ >>> To unsubscribe send any message to >=20 --Apple-Mail=_21DBE300-4C25-4076-AB00-A6BB20520ECA Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 I = don't work much on client's sites any more, but I charged $50/day for my = laptop and software, which was often more up to date than my clients'. =  Nobody ever complained about that.

I charged by = the hour, not by day rate, unless the client requested or demanded it. =  Hourly is the fairest of all possible methods, although they can = work to your advantage if the days are short.  It happens. =  

I had a sweet annual short term gig with = a major telecommunications company that paid me 10 hours often for 4 = hours work.  Of course, that's one client in thirty plus years of = clients.

If the client asks for a volume = discount, I just discount my rate.  That way, neither side is at an = advantage.  I'd charge a minimum per day, for those times I had to = drive in to make a fifteen minute change.  Whether it was a four = hour or a one hour minimum depended on what I could get away with, = frankly.  Independent production companies got more slack than the = big corporations, who will maximize their advantage at every = opportunity.

I rarely charge overtime.  More = often than not, that's been imposed by the client, because I was hired = on as part of an entire production crew, who usually charge = overtime.

For long commutes (over 30 minutes = each way), I go on the clock at 30 minutes into my drive.  No = mileage.  That's a deductible business expense in the = USA.

Whatever you do, put your terms in writing = (An email will do.), be bold and self-confident, and be willing to = negotiate your terms depending on how much you want or need the work or = how much you enjoy working with the = clients.




=

On Jan 4, 2014, at 6:54 PM, Steve Oakley <steveo@practicali.com> = wrote:

8hr = day ? who gets that ???  10hrs if you are lucky, but 1.5X after = that. its the 12hr days that are most profitable but don't kill = you.

if the commute is more than an hr each way I'd = consider local accommodations aka workings as local. if the rate is good = and you can find a decent cheap place to stay you might just eat it for = a multi day job. might be cheaper than gas / tolls plus you get better = sleep and less stress... maybe even add an hr of OT each day since you = aren't driving.

$100/day for software and gear = is reasonable for short gigs, but at some point the client figures out = its cheaper for them to buy their own. keep the money in your pocket and = calculate appropriately. 

also to figure : = lunch on or off the clock. my rule is under 30 min its on the clock, = especially if its one where you are 1/2 working while eating. 1hr and = they buy, I'll go off clock for that if its good food :) however you may = get chiselers that expect your an hr = off.

S

On Jan = 4, 2014, at 6:10 PM, Phil Spitler <phil@bonfirelabs.com> = wrote:

When I freelanced I would charge extra if I brought = my own workstation which was fully loaded with software. I would charge = $100 per day for that.

Make sure you specify an 8 or = 10 hour day, I have been burned on that one before and make sure you = know what happens after those hours.... over time, no over time, weekend = rates etc.

Best to get this nailed before you = go head first into a = project.


Phil

=




Phil = Spitler  |  Creative Technologist   |  Bonfire Labs  = |  t : 415.394.8200  m : 415.571.3139

Website | Facebook | LinkedIn

On Jan 4, 2014, at = 2:11 PM, Patrix Paste wrote:

it is a = couple years old now but still great info=85.

http://motionographer.com/2011/01/17/motion-graphic-design-census-r= esults/

I don=92t know of any employer who pays for commute = time.
even if you ride the google bus i don=92t think you paid for = the commute.
I could be wrong=85.

Just charge more for your = equipment in your hourly rate.

people are paid by the hour most = everywhere I know.

a 10 hour day is standard, but that includes = two hours of overtime.

the sky is the limit. charge what you feel = you are worth!

-patrick



On Jan 4, 2014, at 1:58 = PM, Rachel Max <rachelmax@mac.com> = wrote:

Oh and also, do you stipulate a = maximum number of hours covered in that day = rate?

(10 = hours?)

Thanks in = advance,
Rachel


On Jan 4, 2014, = at 1:50 PM, Rachel Max <rachelmax@mac.com> wrote:

Hi list - is there a current day rate survey out there for = Day Rates for a Senior Level = Designer/Animators?

Also, do you charge more if you = need to bring your own software and = hardware?

What about for a long/expensive = commute?

Thanks,
Rachel
+---End of = message---+
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