Return-Path: Received: from nk11p00mm-asmtp004.mac.com ([17.158.161.3] verified) by media-motion.tv (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2.10) with ESMTP id 5338348 for AE-List@media-motion.tv; Mon, 06 Jan 2014 17:22:03 +0100 Received: from [192.168.1.68] (99-152-153-100.lightspeed.dllstx.sbcglobal.net [99.152.153.100]) by nk11p00mm-asmtp004.mac.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 7u4-27.08(7.0.4.27.7) 64bit (built Aug 22 2013)) with ESMTPSA id <0MYZ001F6MYMJO40@nk11p00mm-asmtp004.mac.com> for AE-List@media-motion.tv; Mon, 06 Jan 2014 16:25:36 +0000 (GMT) X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:5.11.87,1.0.14,0.0.0000 definitions=2014-01-06_02:2014-01-06,2014-01-06,1970-01-01 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 spamscore=0 suspectscore=2 phishscore=0 adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=7.0.1-1308280000 definitions=main-1401060089 From: Jim Curtis Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_1508EEBC-D2EE-4A6C-8DFD-B278151F89A6" Message-id: <94B6AFF2-C9AA-4C2F-AB4F-AEFC71EF165E@me.com> MIME-version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.6 \(1510\)) Subject: Re: [AE] day rates including renting own equipment Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2014 10:25:34 -0600 References: To: After Effects Mail List In-reply-to: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1510) --Apple-Mail=_1508EEBC-D2EE-4A6C-8DFD-B278151F89A6 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 My model is very similar to Rob's. I work from a home office most of = the time. The designation of freelance is often made by the clients. The IRS = considers me a small business (I file a Schedule C.), but my clients = issue me 1099s (for contract labor/freelancers). This is probably = because I haven't incorporated and don't have a hipster name for my = one-man company. They'd probably issue a 1099 to J. Walter Thompson for = the same reason, although they might wonder why his rate is so high. On Jan 6, 2014, at 9:27 AM, Byron Nash wrote: > Rob, it sounds a bit like to me that you are operating more out of a = small business model. Clients come to you mostly. Whereas, some of these = folks are working under a "for hire" freelance model where someone else = has the clients and needs additional manpower/talent to get it done. In = those cases, the in house freelancer can command less of a day rate than = someone who has sought and maintained their own client and equipment. = Even though we tend to toss the term freelance around pretty easily, I = think a lot of folks who call themselves "freelance" are really just = small business owners. Both methods have their merits.=20 >=20 > I am also encouraged somewhat by Rob being able to fetch a livable = rate. I assume you are no spring chick Rob(in a good way) and I think = it's good for our industry to have seasoned talent doing quality work. = As I get a little older, sometimes I fear this is a young man's game and = I'll age out at some point. Staying sharp is a constant concern of mine = now that I have a family to look out for.=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > On Sun, Jan 5, 2014 at 10:48 PM, Rob Birnholz = wrote: > Teddy, I'm not going to get into the specifics of what I bill on a = public forum like this. I will say my average rate works out to higher = than some on this list, but I'm not the most expensive guy around = either. >=20 > I'm a multi- purpose one man band, so depending on what services I'm = performing at any given time my rate is variable (I only occasionally = work outside my own facility). The people I work with and those who have = known me a long time appreciate my strengths and understand what I bring = to the table. I agree my reel is dated, but a good amount of my work is = either proprietary or difficult to show. I'm also not much of a web guy = (obviously), so my site isn't that shiny and new either. But the = clientele I deal with appreciate my talents and the content on my site = is directed at specific market-- and generally they seem pretty = responsive. >=20 > You said it seemed I was bragging. Hardly. In fact you'll notice I = rarely talk about myself or my work around here. But I am proud that = I've survived this long, in spite of myself. So that must mean I'm doing = *something* right. >=20 > I'm in awe of much of the talent in this community. I'm never going to = be a great artist, but I'm not going to sell myself short either. >=20 > FWIW, age does bring a certain amount of wisdom (although I still try = to improve my skills every day), and having a bit more experience than I = did when I was 30 helps justify a somewhat higher rate. >=20 > All that said, its not like I'm getting rich at this job. But overall = I can't complain too loudly. >=20 > (BTW, I'd be happy to talk about my rates - in private - with Rachel = or even you Teddy. Feel free to give me a call.) >=20 > Switching gears a tad (to get back on topic). I live in Central = Florida, and while its nice there are other parts of the country (or = world) I wouldn't mind moving to. But I've noticed that rates in this = business don't seem to fluctuate too much market to market. I'd probably = earn the same $ amount if I lived in NY, SF or LA, but my cost of living = would skyrocket. >=20 > At 25 years old, that probably wouldn't be as important. But these = days I'd have to seriously downsize if I moved, and I doubt my wife = would go for that. >=20 > There's a lot more to what you earn (and what you're worth) than just = the dollars and cents of an hourly rate. >=20 > /rant off >=20 > Rob Birnholz > Absolute Motion Graphics, Inc. > Longwood, Florida > www.absolutemotiongraphics.com >=20 > (sent from a mobile device) >=20 > On Jan 5, 2014, at 1:57 PM, Teddy Gage wrote: >=20 > > What's your rate Rob? Normally I wouldn't ask, but you have = certainly raised the question with a statement like that >=20 > +---End of message---+ > To unsubscribe send any message to >=20 --Apple-Mail=_1508EEBC-D2EE-4A6C-8DFD-B278151F89A6 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 My = model is very similar to Rob's.  I work from a home office most of = the time.

The designation of freelance is often made = by the clients.  The IRS considers me a small business (I file a = Schedule C.), but my clients issue me 1099s (for contract = labor/freelancers).  This is probably because I haven't = incorporated and don't have a hipster name for my one-man company. =  They'd probably issue a 1099 to J. Walter Thompson for the same = reason, although they might wonder why his rate is so = high.


On Jan 6, 2014, at 9:27 AM, Byron = Nash <byronnash@gmail.com> = wrote:

Rob, it sounds a bit like to me that you = are operating more out of a small business model. Clients come to you = mostly. Whereas, some of these folks are working under a "for hire" = freelance model where someone else has the clients and needs additional = manpower/talent to get it done. In those cases, the in house freelancer = can command less of a day rate than someone who has sought and = maintained their own client and equipment. Even though we tend to toss = the term freelance around pretty easily, I think a lot of folks who call = themselves "freelance" are really just small business owners. Both = methods have their merits. 

I am also encouraged somewhat by Rob being able to fetch = a livable rate. I assume you are no spring chick Rob(in a good way) and = I think it's good for our industry to have seasoned talent doing quality = work. As I get a little older, sometimes I fear this is a young man's = game and I'll age out at some point. Staying sharp is a constant concern = of mine now that I have a family to look out for. 




On Sun, Jan 5, = 2014 at 10:48 PM, Rob Birnholz <absolutemotion@birnholz.com> wrote:
Teddy, I'm not going = to get into the specifics of what I bill on a public forum like this. I = will say my average rate works out to higher than some on this list, but = I'm not the most expensive guy around either.

I'm a multi- purpose one man band, so depending on what services I'm = performing at any given time my rate is variable (I only occasionally = work outside my own facility). The people I work with and those who have = known me a long time appreciate my strengths and understand what I bring = to the table. I agree my reel is dated, but a good amount of my work is = either proprietary or difficult to show. I'm also not much of a web guy = (obviously), so my site isn't that shiny and new either. But the = clientele I deal with appreciate my talents and the content on my site = is directed at specific market-- and generally they seem pretty = responsive.

You said it seemed I was bragging. Hardly. In fact you'll notice I = rarely talk about myself or my work around here. But I am proud that = I've survived this long, in spite of myself. So that must mean I'm doing = *something* right.

I'm in awe of much of the talent in this community. I'm never going to = be a great artist, but I'm not going to sell myself short either.

FWIW, age does bring a certain amount of wisdom (although I still try to = improve my skills every day), and having a bit more experience than I = did when I was 30 helps justify a somewhat higher rate.

All that said, its not like I'm getting rich at this job. But overall I = can't complain too loudly.

(BTW, I'd be happy to talk about my rates - in private - with Rachel or = even you Teddy. Feel free to give me a call.)

Switching gears a tad (to get back on topic). I live in Central Florida, = and while its nice there are other parts of the country (or world) I = wouldn't mind moving to. But I've noticed that rates in this business = don't seem to fluctuate too much market to market. I'd probably earn the = same $ amount if I lived in NY, SF or LA, but my cost of living would = skyrocket.

At 25 years old, that probably wouldn't be as important. But these days = I'd have to seriously downsize if I moved, and I doubt my wife would go = for that.

There's a lot more to what you earn (and what you're worth) than just = the dollars and cents of an hourly rate.

/rant off

Rob Birnholz
Absolute Motion Graphics, Inc.
Longwood, Florida
www.absolutemotiongraphics.com

(sent from a mobile device)

On Jan 5, 2014, at 1:57 PM, Teddy Gage = <teddygage@gmail.com> = wrote:

> What's your rate Rob? Normally I wouldn't ask, but you have = certainly raised the question with a statement like that

+---End of message---+
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