Return-Path: Received: from mail-qe0-f52.google.com ([209.85.128.52] verified) by media-motion.tv (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2.10) with ESMTP-TLS id 5347367 for AE-List@media-motion.tv; Wed, 15 Jan 2014 18:35:51 +0100 Received: by mail-qe0-f52.google.com with SMTP id s1so1398745qeb.11 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2014 09:39:42 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-type; bh=A/vLMJtbKPjNTNKdnvNS42+By3bsZuQq5cidqRXGwhw=; b=jSUJGVhVw4wuj9X2P5QUpZOkAPw41l9G0JEN+Coy7BqE9/scxJj82fXedjayI6QhJq AtDH+HkrskniLH+C8ZAyWM1uKXht54M/US4WLrGC+LMAIAo05Nh9s0zXFz3b9f9SD949 A1sX87HmOs3IpN6kqqz4Ig7f4SnjETxtx8EJvWgIp/gw2ODiTUa4y8tDm69AOy7k6T3A oZiLLQJlAbCzD20A8IpjCkZ8HoRCcvTVreRvcPrydV6s8WNhlk0Qmob3WWJmPx+Umy1K H/lIyrTzjelg8gbGmsnoiWBWkaX9OAwA3qD1jfX4mEpf+w8LlXetbwy8Uswn6IDA14k8 gSLw== X-Received: by 10.224.34.71 with SMTP id k7mr6765614qad.15.1389807582067; Wed, 15 Jan 2014 09:39:42 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.96.216.132 with HTTP; Wed, 15 Jan 2014 09:39:01 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: From: Teddy Gage Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2014 12:39:01 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [AE] Thoughts on ultra-high resolution To: After Effects Mail List Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c291e63c41bf04f005cb6d --001a11c291e63c41bf04f005cb6d Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ah, great to see that Steve. I guess I was wrong. So Stephen's problems are related to the AE STILL image buffer? Then that means this is theoretically possible in a single comp. But like Steve says, even if AE is capable, the hardware requirements for working / rendering seem incredibly steep. One crazy suggestion would be a machine with multiple GTX Titans, and extremely simple vector animations in the raytrace engine (but not using actual 3D features like depth, refraction, shadows etc) could be one way to accomplish it on a budget, with reasonable playback / render speed. Each titan can drive 4 displays and has 6GB VRAM. Up to 4 can be installed in one machine. On Wed, Jan 15, 2014 at 12:18 PM, Steve Oakley wrote= : > Well just for the record - > > AE > After Effects supports a maximum image size of 30,000x30,000 pixels for > importing and rendering files. The size of image that you can import or > export is influenced by the amount of physical RAM available to After > Effects. The maximum composition dimensions are also 30,000x30,000 pixels= . > > PP > > The maximum sequence frame size in pixels is 10,240=D78,192 (widthxheight= ). > If you attempt to set one of the Frame Size dimensions higher than this > limit in the Sequence Settings dialog box, > Premiere Pro will reset the value to the maximum. > > *still image and movie size:*The maximum frame size that can be imported<= http://help.adobe.com/en_US/premierepro/cs/using/WS1c9bc5c2e465a58a91cf0b10= 38518aef7-7fbaa.html> for > still images and movies is 256 megapixels, with a maximum dimension of > 32,768 pixels in either direction.For example, an image that is > 16,000=D716,000 pixels is OK, as is one that is 32,000=D78,000, but an im= age > that is 35,000=D710,000 pixels can=92t be used. > So the two tools you need from adobe can handle it. 8bit is kind of a > given though as deeper color would become pretty much impossible on curre= nt > hardware. > > S > > > On Jan 15, 2014, at 11:11 AM, Teddy Gage wrote: > > I could think of lots of ways to split it into manageable parts. One > example is to use a master comp for all the elements, and have 20x camera= s. > When elements go across screens you just move into that comp with linked > properties and elements. That way you have a consistent screen space, but > the image is broken into separate comps. Or create a master project at le= ss > than 1/4 resolution as a guide, and then scale up vector elements. And as > Stephen Van Vuuren is so fond of telling us, AE simply does not have the > frame buffer capabilities to work in a single 20K comp. You'd need to use > Nuke > -TG > > > On Wed, Jan 15, 2014 at 11:55 AM, Greg Balint w= rote: > >> Considering it's a "wall" format.. the client probably wants content tha= t >> will span across and animate across all screens continuously.. This woul= d >> probably get pretty hard to design for if only one 4k screen could be >> designed at a time. >> >> >> On Wed, Jan 15, 2014 at 11:41 AM, Teddy Gage wrote= : >> >>> Sorry if this is a dumb idea, but what's stopping you from working on 2= 0 >>> individual 4K projects and then syncing them up after the fact? Seems t= o me >>> breaking it into chunks is the answer. And that way if one render fails= or >>> you need to tweak a single video you're not stuck re-rendering the whol= e >>> project. >>> >>> Either that or buy 5 new mac pros for $10k a pop and have them each >>> driving four displays, live. >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Jan 15, 2014 at 4:47 AM, Chris Zwar wrote= : >>> >>>> Hoping I can pick the brains of the group=85 >>>> >>>> A marketing agency has approached us with a concept for a display of 4= K >>>> TVs. Stripping away the creative it's basically a video wall made up = of 4K >>>> TVs. The problem is that they want each TV to be displaying a full 4K >>>> stream, so the pixels add up very quickly. >>>> >>>> 4K is 3840 x 2160. >>>> >>>> If this hypothetical video wall was 5 TVs across by 4 TVs down, the >>>> overall canvas would be 19,200 x 8640. I think the actual design was = for >>>> even more, I think it was 8 across (30,720 pixels). >>>> >>>> I really don't think it's feasible to work at such a high resolution i= n >>>> any software package. I've had one After Effects project that was abo= ut >>>> 10K x 1080, and probably the biggest I've done was about 7K x 3K, and = I >>>> really wouldn't want to go much bigger in After Effects. However I do= n't >>>> think any compositing package - or even software package - would be mu= ch >>>> fun working with projects in then 10's of thousands of pixels. >>>> >>>> Apart from the playback issues (don't know how they plan on playing >>>> back to 20 - 30 4K TVs, perhaps Watchout can do it?) I'm not sure how = to >>>> approach the project without doing it at a lower res and scaling up. = And >>>> that's what we would normally do - and often do when the delivery >>>> resolution gets too high - but the whole point of this marketing exerc= ise >>>> is to have each TV playing back a full res 4K stream=85 >>>> >>>> So I am wondering what are the largest resolutions that people here >>>> work with successfully? If we had access to a few gigapixel photograp= hs >>>> would it be possible to do a simple slideshow type thing at 20 or 30K? >>>> >>>> >>>> -Chris >>>> +---End of message---+ >>>> To unsubscribe send any message to >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> _____________________________ >>> VFX & Motion Graphic Artist >>> teddygage dot com >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> ///Greg Balint >> //Art Director / Motion Graphics Designer >> /321.514.4839delRAZOR.com/ >> >> > > > -- > _____________________________ > VFX & Motion Graphic Artist > teddygage dot com > > > --=20 _____________________________ VFX & Motion Graphic Artist teddygage dot com --001a11c291e63c41bf04f005cb6d Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
=A0 =A0Ah, great to see that Steve. I guess I was wrong. S= o Stephen's problems are related to the AE STILL image buffer? Then tha= t means this is theoretically possible in a single comp. But like Steve say= s, even if AE is capable, the hardware requirements for working / rendering= seem incredibly steep. One crazy suggestion would be a machine with multip= le GTX Titans, and extremely simple vector animations in the raytrace engin= e (but not using actual 3D features like depth, refraction, shadows etc) co= uld be one way to accomplish it on a budget, with reasonable playback / ren= der speed. Each titan can drive 4 displays and has 6GB VRAM. Up to 4 can be= installed in one machine.=A0


On Wed, Jan 1= 5, 2014 at 12:18 PM, Steve Oakley <steveo@practicali.com> wrote:
Well just for the record -

AE
After Effects supports a ma= ximum image size of 30,000x30,000 pixels for importing and rendering files.= The size of image that you can import or export is influenced by the amoun= t of physical RAM available to After Effects. The maximum composition dimen= sions are also 30,000x30,000 pixels.

PP=A0=

The maximum sequence frame size in pixels is 10,240=D78,192 (widthxheight).= If you attempt to set one of the Frame Size dimensions higher than this li= mit in the=A0Sequence Settings dialog box, Premiere Pro will reset the v= alue to the maximum.

still image and movie size:The maximum= frame size that can be=A0imported= =A0for still images and movies is 256 megapixels, with a maximum dimens= ion of 32,768 pixels in either direction.For example, an image that is 16,0= 00=D716,000 pixels is OK, as is one that is 32,000=D78,000, but an image th= at is 35,000=D710,000 pixels can=92t be used.

So the two tools you need from adobe can handle it. 8bit is kind = of a given though as deeper color would become pretty much impossible on cu= rrent hardware.=A0

S

=
On Jan 15, 2014, at 11:11 AM, Teddy Gage <teddygage@gmail.com> wrote= :

I could think of lots of way= s to split it into manageable parts. One example is to use a master comp fo= r all the elements, and have 20x cameras. When elements go across screens y= ou just move into that comp with linked properties and elements. That way y= ou have a consistent screen space, but the image is broken into separate co= mps. Or create a master project at less than 1/4 resolution as a guide, and= then scale up vector elements. And as Stephen Van Vuuren is so fond of tel= ling us, AE simply does not have the frame buffer capabilities to work in a= single 20K comp. You'd need to use Nuke
-TG


On Wed, Jan 15, 2014 at 11:55 AM, Greg Balint <delrazoraelist@gma= il.com> wrote:
Considering it's a &quo= t;wall" format.. the client probably wants content that will span acro= ss and animate across all screens continuously.. This would probably get pr= etty hard to design for if only one 4k screen could be designed at a time.<= /div>


On = Wed, Jan 15, 2014 at 11:41 AM, Teddy Gage <teddygage@gmail.com> wrote:
Sorry if this is a dumb ide= a, but what's stopping you from working on 20 individual 4K projects an= d then syncing them up after the fact? Seems to me breaking it into chunks = is the answer. And that way if one render fails or you need to tweak a sing= le video you're not stuck re-rendering the whole project.

Either that or buy 5 new mac pros for $10k a pop and have th= em each driving four displays, live.
=


On Wed, Jan 15, 2014 at 4:47 AM, Ch= ris Zwar <chris@chriszwar.com> wrote:
Hoping I can pick the brains of the group=85=

A marketing agency has approached us with a concept for a display of 4K TVs= . =A0Stripping away the creative it's basically a video wall made up of= 4K TVs. =A0The problem is that they want each TV to be displaying a full 4= K stream, so the pixels add up very quickly.

4K is 3840 x 2160.

If this hypothetical video wall was 5 TVs across by 4 TVs down, the overall= canvas would be 19,200 x 8640. =A0I think the actual design was for even m= ore, I think it was 8 across (30,720 pixels).

I really don't think it's feasible to work at such a high resolutio= n in any software package. =A0I've had one After Effects project that w= as about 10K x 1080, and probably the biggest I've done was about 7K x = 3K, and I really wouldn't want to go much bigger in After Effects. =A0H= owever I don't think any compositing package - or even software package= - would be much fun working with projects in then 10's of thousands of= pixels.

Apart from the playback issues (don't know how they plan on playing bac= k to 20 - 30 4K TVs, perhaps Watchout can do it?) I'm not sure how to a= pproach the project without doing it at a lower res and scaling up. =A0And = that's what we would normally do - and often do when the delivery resol= ution gets too high - but the whole point of this marketing exercise is to = have each TV playing back a full res 4K stream=85

So I am wondering what are the largest resolutions that people here work wi= th successfully? =A0If we had access to a few gigapixel photographs would i= t be possible to do a simple slideshow type thing at 20 or 30K?


-Chris
+---End of message---+
To unsubscribe send any message to <ae-list-off@media-motion.tv>



--
____________= _________________
VFX & Motion Graphic Artist
teddygage dot com



--
= 
///Greg Balint
//Art Director / Motion Graphics Designer
/321.=
514.4839
delRAZOR.com/



--
_____________________________
<= font style color=3D"#6aa84f" size=3D"1" face=3D"georgia, serif">VFX & M= otion Graphic Artist
teddygage dot com




--
_____= ________________________
VFX &= amp; Motion Graphic Artist
teddygage dot com
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