Return-Path: Received: from st11p02mm-asmtp002.mac.com ([17.172.220.237] verified) by media-motion.tv (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2.10) with ESMTP id 5479233 for AE-List@media-motion.tv; Mon, 19 May 2014 22:25:47 +0200 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_8C9Gf3e0LxDyOZEQiNhRBA)" Received: from st11p02mm-spool002.mac.com ([17.172.220.247]) by st11p02mm-asmtp002.mac.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 7u4-27.08(7.0.4.27.7) 64bit (built Aug 22 2013)) with ESMTP id <0N5U006GF8QAQR10@st11p02mm-asmtp002.mac.com> for AE-List@media-motion.tv; Mon, 19 May 2014 20:25:23 +0000 (GMT) Received: from localhost ([17.172.220.222]) by st11p02mm-spool002.mac.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 7u4-27.01(7.0.4.27.0) 64bit (built Aug 30 2012)) with ESMTP id <0N5U00ACW8QA8L70@st11p02mm-spool002.mac.com> for AE-List@media-motion.tv; Mon, 19 May 2014 20:25:22 +0000 (GMT) To: After Effects Mail List From: Brian Klein Subject: Re: [AE] CC subscription price increase Date: Mon, 19 May 2014 20:25:22 +0000 (GMT) X-Mailer: iCloud MailClient14C.131978 MailServer14C39.15829 X-Originating-IP: [173.240.29.233] Message-id: <5f0399a6-3d23-4d6d-83fa-5005581c5e4e@me.com> In-reply-to: X-MANTSH: 1TEIXWV4bG1oaGkdHB0lGUkdDRl5PWBoaHxEKTEMXGx0EGx0YBBIZBBsSEBseGh8 aEQpYTRdLEQptfhcaEQpMWRcbGhsbEQpZSRcRClleF2huZhEKQ04XSxsZGmJCHx1SHhN9GXhzB x5gGBoYH2QdEQpYXBcZBBoEGxsHTU4fGBgYGUsFGx0EGx0YBBIZBBsSEBseGh8bEQpeWRdhWWs bZREKTEYXbmtrEQpDWhcbHQQbHRgEGBgaBBgeHREKQl4XGxEKQkYXYxh8aXh4WUh6WwERCkJFF 3pmUltlWXJMTkNsEQpCThdrRRpSUB5DXFlcaBEKQkwXYGxyaVJpU09zGR8RCkJsF2hSf11EWUx SYmBnEQpCQBdobxwTXWVDBXt4XxEKQlgXaWFDbmdbXnleRHIRCnBnF29HR2RBXxNrZEwFEQpwa BdpGHoYTWcFbXtgRBEKcGgXYllLSBt6ZAFGbF0RCnBoF2sFfHp/HRx+SX9eEQpwaBdjaE5+bWJ sSR9EGxEKcGgXY1xjHkRGQhoYWgURCnBnF2NdSVMbR01aaHlLEQpwbBdjZXtQS1tAHkEdTBEKc EwXbmRJXB5hZxNIb28RCnBDF2VBThJhGmJjWh9bEQ== X-CLX-Spam: false X-CLX-Score: 1011 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:5.11.96,1.0.14,0.0.0000 definitions=2014-05-19_01:2014-05-19,2014-05-19,1970-01-01 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 spamscore=0 suspectscore=2 phishscore=0 adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=7.0.1-1402240000 definitions=main-1405190251 --Boundary_(ID_8C9Gf3e0LxDyOZEQiNhRBA) Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Well, I wouldn't call Apple's tools inferior. Just different. I can do a b= etter job with FCPX than with Premiere for certain projects, but not for o= thers. But completely agree with you about the $600 per year for pro bono/= hobbyist projects. Even if Premiere might be the best tool for the job in = that instance, I would likely figure out how to do it in FCPX (or Lightwor= ks?) Likewise, I'd probably go to Motion (or Hitfilm?) instead of AE in th= at instance. (Also=A0remember that Adobe has an option to purchase it for = a month at a time. So you could pay=A0$75=A0to get the suite of tools for = 1 month if you absolutely needed them.)=0A=0AAnd sometimes the inferior to= ol used for the superior work, is=A0actually the tool you needed in the fi= rst place, you just=A0didn't know it. :)=0A=0AGood discussion. Thanks for = bringing it up!=0A=0ABrian=0A=0AOn May 17, 2014, at 01:54 PM, Jim Curtis <= jpcurtis@me.com> wrote:=0A=0AI agree with all your points, Brian. It's not= entirely fair to compare Apple to Adobe, because Apple sells software as = a loss leader. However, to Apple hardware customers, it's very fair to com= pare what we're paying for software, and what we get out of it.=0A=0AI don= 't think the Apple software compares favorably to Adobe right now. I playe= d with the demo and read good things about FCPX, but I also read that Moti= on isn't a design tool as Ae is, and that Compressor isn't as efficient as= AME (all of which is subject to change). I can't imagine switching over t= o Apple software from Adobe as long as I'm making a living on post work, a= nd Adobe maintains superiority on the tools I use.=0A=0AAfter I retire, th= ough (hopefully not too far off), I can't imagine paying $600/year for som= ething I can get for $400 or $500 long term for what will likely be pro bo= no or hobbyist projects. =0A=0ATrying to do superior work with inferior to= ols is just the kind of challenge I like to take on. :)=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AOn M= ay 17, 2014, at 1:22 PM, Brian Klein wrote:=0A= =0A =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0> I think the $49.99 rate is what they have always said= it was going to be, wasn't it? I feel like it's maybe a tad too expensive= , and I wish they would break it out into app groups. I don't use any of t= he web apps, and it feels like I am paying for them, therefore I feel a bi= t cheated. But software is all Adobe makes (I think, at least...) So it's = their only source of income. Apple makes more money by selling the compute= rs/devices, so they can afford to price their software lower. I think that= 's why we are seeing such a difference in the pricing between the two comp= anies.=0A =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0> =0A =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0> Also, to maybe make a bit = more of a fair comparison between Adobe and Apple apps, you would add Logi= c Pro X and Aperature to your price. (And that still wouldn't include high= -end color grading, web development, or Photoshop and Illustrator replacem= ents.) However, the nice thing about that is you don't have to buy them if= you don't need them. And you only need to buy them once. And it doesn't a= ppear they are going to charge for updates. =0A =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0> =0A =A0 =A0= =A0 =A0> My 2=A2.=0A =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0> =0A =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0> Brian Klein=0A= =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0> =0A =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0> On May 17, 2014, a= t 12:04 PM, Jim Curtis wrote:=0A =A0 =A0 =A0= =A0> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0> =0A =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0> I knew the fi= rst year was an introductory rate, but I got notice today my monthly rate = was going to increase to $49.99/mo. from $29.99.=0A =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0> =A0 =A0= =A0 =A0> =0A =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0> That's a pretty steep hike= . I was expecting more along the lines of $39.99, maybe without good reaso= ns for it.=0A =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0> =0A =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0> =A0 =A0= =A0 =A0> So, this puts the annual rate at $600. I was used to paying that= every other year as an upgrade to the Production Premium bundle.=0A =A0 =A0= =A0 =A0> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0> =0A =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0> I still d= on't think that's an outrageous price, and it's deductible to me, but I th= ink this plays into some fears that some people had when Adobe announced t= heir subscription model. After all, you can still buy a permanent license = of Motion, Compressor and FCP for $400, and upgrades are included.=0A =A0 = =A0 =A0 =A0> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0> =0A =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0> What d= o you think?=0A =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0> =0A =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0> =A0= =A0 =A0 =A0> =0A =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0> =0A =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0> =A0= =A0 =A0 =A0> .=0A =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0> =0A =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0> = =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0> +---End of message---+=0A =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0= > To unsubscribe send any message to =0A = =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0> =0A =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0> +---End of message---+=0A =A0 =A0 =A0= =A0> To unsubscribe send any message to = =0A=0A=0A+---End of message---+=0ATo unsubscribe send any message to =0A= --Boundary_(ID_8C9Gf3e0LxDyOZEQiNhRBA) Content-type: multipart/related; boundary="Boundary_(ID_OP5D8ah0iEMmEOO3esxAUg)"; type="text/html" --Boundary_(ID_OP5D8ah0iEMmEOO3esxAUg) Content-type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable
Well, I wouldn't call Apple's tools inferior. Just different. I can d= o a better job with FCPX than with Premiere for certain projects, but not = for others. But completely agree with you about the $600 per year for pro = bono/hobbyist projects. Even if Premiere might be the best tool for the jo= b in that instance, I would likely figure out how to do it in FCPX (or Lig= htworks?) Likewise, I'd probably go to Motion (or Hitfilm?) instead of AE = in that instance. (Also remember that Adobe has an option to purchase= it for a month at a time. So you could pay $75 to get the suit= e of tools for 1 month if you absolutely needed them.)
And sometimes the inferior tool used for the superior work, i= s actually the tool you needed in the first place, you just didn= 't know it. :)

Good discussion. Thanks for bringi= ng it up!

Brian

On May 17, 2014, at= 01:54 PM, Jim Curtis <jpcurtis@me.com> wrote:

I agre= e with all your points, Brian. It's not entirely fair to compare Apple to = Adobe, because Apple sells software as a loss leader. However, to Apple ha= rdware customers, it's very fair to compare what we're paying for software= , and what we get out of it.

I don't think the Apple software compa= res favorably to Adobe right now. I played with the demo and read good thi= ngs about FCPX, but I also read that Motion isn't a design tool as Ae is, = and that Compressor isn't as efficient as AME (all of which is subject to = change). I can't imagine switching over to Apple software from Adobe as lo= ng as I'm making a living on post work, and Adobe maintains superiority on= the tools I use.

After I retire, though (hopefully not too far off= ), I can't imagine paying $600/year for something I can get for $400 or $5= 00 long term for what will likely be pro bono or hobbyist projects.
Trying to do superior work with inferior tools is just the kind of chall= enge I like to take on. :)




On May 17, 2014, at 1:22 PM,= Brian Klein <klein.brian@icloud.com  > wrot= e:

       > I think the $49.99 rate is what= they have always said it was going to be, wasn't it? I feel like it's may= be a tad too expensive, and I wish they would break it out into app groups= . I don't use any of the web apps, and it feels like I am paying for them,= therefore I feel a bit cheated. But software is all Adobe makes (I think,= at least...) So it's their only source of income. Apple makes more money = by selling the computers/devices, so they can afford to price their softwa= re lower. I think that's why we are seeing such a difference in the pricin= g between the two companies.
       >
&nbs= p;      > Also, to maybe make a bit more of a fair compa= rison between Adobe and Apple apps, you would add Logic Pro X and Aperatur= e to your price. (And that still wouldn't include high-end color grading, = web development, or Photoshop and Illustrator replacements.) However, the = nice thing about that is you don't have to buy them if you don't need them= . And you only need to buy them once. And it doesn't appear they are going= to charge for updates.
       >
  &= nbsp;    > My 2=A2.
       >
=        > Brian Klein
       = ;>
       >        >= On May 17, 2014, at 12:04 PM, Jim Curtis <jpcurtis@me.com  =    > wrote:
       >    = ;    >
       >     &nb= sp;  > I knew the first year was an introductory rate, but I got n= otice today my monthly rate was going to increase to $49.99/mo. from $29.9= 9.
       >        >        >        > That's a= pretty steep hike. I was expecting more along the lines of $39.99, maybe = without good reasons for it.
       >   &n= bsp;    >
       >     =    > So, this puts the annual rate at $600. I was used to pay= ing that every other year as an upgrade to the Production Premium bundle.<= br>        >        >
&= nbsp;      >        > I still don= 't think that's an outrageous price, and it's deductible to me, but I thin= k this plays into some fears that some people had when Adobe announced the= ir subscription model. After all, you can still buy a permanent license of= Motion, Compressor and FCP for $400, and upgrades are included.
 = ;      >        >
  &nb= sp;    >        > What do you think?        >        >
&n= bsp;      >        >
  =      >        >
   = ;    >        > .
    &n= bsp;  >        >
      =  >        > +---End of message---+
&nbs= p;      >        > To unsubscribe= send any message to <ae-list-off@media-motio= n.tv  >
       >
   =    > +---End of message---+
       &= gt; To unsubscribe send any message to <ae-li= st-off@media-motion.tv  >


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