From: "Teddy Gage" Received: from mail-yk0-f175.google.com ([209.85.160.175] verified) by media-motion.tv (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2.10) with ESMTP-TLS id 5491661 for AE-List@media-motion.tv; Mon, 02 Jun 2014 17:26:21 +0200 Received: by mail-yk0-f175.google.com with SMTP id 131so3770553ykp.20 for ; Mon, 02 Jun 2014 08:26:20 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-type; bh=wmDs9FKdd+ILf5TzO3H6O/p3AKU2YOhbY8d7JdDmwVs=; b=QILnhzAi0tljI422syBVE8KwnsX93cC5mEe+s1g5zeuRXvK+Sm3hLHA2qgtj0NZor2 tO4D1UVPkFbfjo9zA8y8a2SqkdnSxehhZnJ/SIcTqK3BKONh0nnuukoyqv9ElErUA81m S91BrKdxtzApnBHzXuSh9LRUQh9H4WN3c7eYv+7H683iiw6VXdqSTsTiIXpKJOKlEi+5 T+VXXLLM4OoIXtxoYSlQHUXjbXQP1iihyrTVJUCeMTmDIkHQFhK/FSwhjsECHzuZqpNp yHJdFnwElst5wLDQEJ37bNTyYk1FItkomz8jnALchrpaqRMyrEtHpZlBSe+l6YSpIinU 594g== X-Received: by 10.236.101.198 with SMTP id b46mr53266349yhg.68.1401722779960; Mon, 02 Jun 2014 08:26:19 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.170.76.134 with HTTP; Mon, 2 Jun 2014 08:25:39 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2014 11:25:39 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [AE] Tracking Iphone/Ipad screen replacement - green or not? To: After Effects Mail List Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=20cf30050b225f8b0a04fadc04ff --20cf30050b225f8b0a04fadc04ff Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 we use these http://www.filmmakin.com/free-stuff/printable-motion-tracking-marker.html, scale them down to 1/4 inch, and print them on adhesive paper However only when it looks to be a really tough track - like you said, lots of shearing and rotation, or object movement + significant camera movement. The markers seem to really help lock in the track for 3D transforms. Otherwise, like Ross said Mocha is great at simply grabbing the screen plane as long as there's some contrast. And if we REALLY needed screen-accurate reflections (you'd be surprised with what you can fake) we wouldn't use tracking markers either. I like Greg's idea of the tracking app for the device, especially for low-key scenes where screen glow is important... On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 11:13 AM, Roei Tzoref wrote: > hey Eric. > > about the markers: I mean I would have to remove the markers because I > want the real reflections from the scene > and I want the real background to use blend modes to better integrate the > composite into the scene. > > and with markers I would get holes in the footage once removed t. and as > for cg reflections guess when you don't have good real reflections (like it > shot 2) you can fake those > but sometimes you really better off getting the real ones. > > something like this shot for example. > when its indoors its easy decision I think (no markers) > > > On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 6:01 PM, Mr. Eric D. Kirk > wrote: > >> Good discussion. I know I've done this a number of times and each time >> can think of some way they could have shot it better. >> >> I would prefer to have a 4-5 little dots to use for tracking and >> secondly, where possible avoid unneccesary glare. But the trackers would >> definitely be helpful. Then avoid where possible unnecessary hands or >> fingers overlapping the screen. What I don't quite understand is why you >> would have to remove the track points. Isn't this a screen replacement? >> >> If so, seems that replacement would cover the track points. As for the >> reflection. I'd just add that back in after the fact. >> >> I'd much rather have a matte black screen with dots than a shiny one any >> day. :) >> >> Eric >> >> >> On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 10:40 AM, Teddy Gage >> wrote: >> >>> We use small tracking target stickers at each corner of the screen and >>> mocha takes care of the rest. How experienced are you with mocha? Even the >>> most difficult tracks can be accomplished manually but there are a lot of >>> ways to do it you may not know about. There are some great advanced tuts >>> online even pros could learn from. >>> >>> We never use green because as you said it blocks reflections, but more >>> importantly you can get green spill on the actors that is harder to manage. >>> On Jun 2, 2014 10:28 AM, "Roei Tzoref" wrote: >>> >>>> Hey y'all >>>> >>>> I recently tracked different kind of Iphone and Ipads screen >>>> replacements >>>> with different methods, and cant be sure whats the optimal way of >>>> preparing the shoot. >>>> >>>> my question is: >>>> *do you use green on iphone and ipads where **good reflections are >>>> needed to sell the shot?* >>>> >>>> my considerations are: >>>> on one hand: >>>> with green sticker -> better track and maybe easier roto, but you do >>>> have to remove it >>>> and no reflections. >>>> >>>> on the other hand: >>>> without green sticker -> more rotoscoping, sometimes difficult track, >>>> but good reflections. >>>> >>>> the way I decided doing it was with no green because mocha can track >>>> just with >>>> the shapes and proportions and the green I get usually its just a pain >>>> to remove >>>> and although helps me with the track, I do have to remove it and >>>> replace it. and >>>> usually it doesn't help me with keying it because the shot is lit for >>>> the main action >>>> and not the green inside. the problem is I got a shot with bright sun >>>> behind >>>> and the track was very hard. a green would have at least help with the >>>> shear shift. >>>> >>>> what do you recommend as the best course of action for iphones and ipads >>>> and GUI screens in general (where you need the reflections)? >>>> >>>> thanks >>>> >>>> >> >> >> -- >> *Eric D. Kirk | **Kirk Productions* >> *Hidden in the Woods | VFX* >> *The Night Visitor | VFX* >> *443.206.1347 <443.206.1347>* >> >> *www.kirkproductions.com >> kirkproductions@gmail.com >> * >> *IMDB: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm3351363/ >> * >> >> > > -- _____________________________ VFX & Motion Graphic Artist teddygage dot com --20cf30050b225f8b0a04fadc04ff Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
we use these=C2=A0http://www.filmmakin.com/free= -stuff/printable-motion-tracking-marker.html, scale them down to 1/4 in= ch, and print them on adhesive paper

However only when it looks to be a really tough track - like= you said, lots of shearing and rotation, or object movement + significant = camera movement. The markers seem to really help lock in the track for 3D t= ransforms. Otherwise, like Ross said Mocha is great at simply grabbing the = screen plane as long as there's some contrast. And if we REALLY needed = screen-accurate reflections (you'd be surprised with what you can fake)= we wouldn't use tracking markers either.=C2=A0

I like Greg's idea of the tracking app for the devi= ce, especially for low-key scenes where screen glow is important...




On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 11:13 AM, Roei Tzoref <AE-List@media-motion.tv> wrote:
hey Eric.

about the markers: I mean I w= ould have to remove the markers because I want the real reflections from th= e scene
and I want the real background to use blend modes to bett= er integrate the composite into the scene.

and with markers I would get holes in the footage once = removed t. and as for cg reflections guess when you don't have good rea= l reflections (like it shot 2) you can fake those
but sometimes you rea= lly better off getting the real ones.=C2=A0

something like this shot for example.
when its indoors = its easy decision I think (no markers)


On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 6:01 PM, Mr. Eric D. Kirk <AE-List@media-moti= on.tv> wrote:
Good discussion.=C2=A0 I know I've done this a nu= mber of times and each time can think of some way they could have shot it b= etter.
=C2=A0
I would prefer to have a 4-5 little dots = to use for tracking and secondly, where possible avoid unneccesary glare.= =C2=A0 But the trackers would definitely be helpful.=C2=A0 Then avoid where= possible unnecessary hands or fingers overlapping the screen.=C2=A0 What I= don't quite understand is why you would have to remove the track point= s.=C2=A0 Isn't this a screen replacement?
=C2=A0
If so, seems that replacement would cover the track p= oints.=C2=A0 As for the reflection.=C2=A0 I'd just add that back in aft= er the fact.
=C2=A0
I'd much rather have a matte bl= ack screen with dots than a shiny one any day. :)
=C2=A0
Eric


On Mon, Jun= 2, 2014 at 10:40 AM, Teddy Gage <AE-List@media-motion.tv> wrote:

We use small tracking target = stickers at each corner of the screen and mocha takes care of the rest. How= experienced are you with mocha? Even the most difficult tracks can be acco= mplished manually but there are a lot of ways to do it you may not know abo= ut. There are some great advanced tuts online even pros could learn from. <= /p>

We never use green because as you said it blocks reflections= , but more importantly you can get green spill on the actors that is harder= to manage.

On Jun 2, 2014 10:28 AM, "Roei Tzoref"= <AE-List@m= edia-motion.tv> wrote:
Hey y'all

I recently tracked different ki= nd of Iphone and Ipads screen replacements
with different methods= , and cant be sure whats the optimal way of preparing the shoot.

my question is:
do you use green on iphone and = ipads where=C2=A0good reflections are needed to sell the shot?

my considerations are:
on one hand:
with green sticker -> better track and maybe easier roto, but you do hav= e to remove it
and no reflections.

on th= e other hand:
without green sticker -> more rotoscoping, somet= imes difficult track, but good reflections.

the way I decided doing it was with no green beca= use mocha can track just with
the shapes and proportions and the = green I get usually its just a pain to remove
and although helps = me with the track, I do have to remove it and replace it. and
usually it doesn't help me with keying it because the shot is lit = for the main action
and not the green inside. the problem is I go= t a shot with bright sun behind
and the track was very hard. a gr= een would have at least help with the shear shift.

what do you recommend as the best course of action for = iphones and ipads
and GUI screens in general (where you need the = reflections)?

thanks




= --
Eri= c D. Kirk |=C2=A0Kirk Productions
Hidden in the Woo= ds | VFX
The Night Visitor | VFX




--
_____________________________
<= font style=3D"background-color:rgb(255,255,255)" color=3D"#6aa84f" size=3D"= 1" face=3D"georgia, serif">VFX & Motion Graphic Artist
teddygage dot com
--20cf30050b225f8b0a04fadc04ff--