From: "Ross Shain" Received: from eu1sys200aog107.obsmtp.com ([207.126.144.123] verified) by media-motion.tv (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2.10) with SMTP id 5491711 for AE-List@media-motion.tv; Mon, 02 Jun 2014 17:55:51 +0200 Received: from mail-qg0-f52.google.com ([209.85.192.52]) (using TLSv1) by eu1sys200aob107.postini.com ([207.126.147.11]) with SMTP ID DSNKU4yehmJR7XV4+eZ4VF1rITHjvAbqoMs0@postini.com; Mon, 02 Jun 2014 15:55:51 UTC Received: by mail-qg0-f52.google.com with SMTP id a108so10896751qge.39 for ; Mon, 02 Jun 2014 08:55:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:references:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:cc:from:subject:date:to; bh=X+KhGbcJ2EdasZaGaqJ9RUKGKzB0gfy+DEBBkQXOjAg=; b=mCii2UvTB+dNCwhpUIp2X+SDPoaSmCOb2xi/O3HmX74MvlK/QiHeuzNvkgYtqDT11u bZKTGUCneyUdQ99r5RTcwFWDJRymeF9juYn1Ntk0pnfrQJtBwMxzbm+Q0nZi+e76Id6A 9M1x5Qa2YDIlYrBpdZT8+ZdL2I/jSS2h2w4mmsAAolZCQw2tZxJuoNp3nIe31ts8QnjU aLj0m1M8nzpjm1lMV/Qb9MJJZTqve+hIdv6pwXXr/U0Y3IFF9dq1LmVrt3rAYNvX1bhy dC6Fs3CEBZ0rl+x5LFhG96qc98ZuhDyaH2/j1HnxEvsezx1/iySP4HkyY4r82LaK7Xuf 2d9A== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlNwfjwMhwDFoBHnGF4aNKoJxlKQh5V3V4OKhW+gD/0l+UO0avQbsNay6bsJ0ACgbywzNuBDDxwyxurXProlUV/r7QGCJvupXOUOYUXDowHhYNUYwGTNI2i2BYJJmEvkoCtwCrhj4W1CXSGv9dW/jBQoTT2hg== X-Received: by 10.140.98.234 with SMTP id o97mr48108957qge.35.1401724550928; Mon, 02 Jun 2014 08:55:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.140.98.234 with SMTP id o97mr48108917qge.35.1401724550740; Mon, 02 Jun 2014 08:55:50 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: Received: from [10.66.37.232] (mobile-198-228-195-143.mycingular.net. [198.228.195.143]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id il9sm22017153qab.22.2014.06.02.08.55.49 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 02 Jun 2014 08:55:49 -0700 (PDT) References: Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-3B3F9569-8B41-4E34-86FB-20A3AB7C4208 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <1FE02CBB-5081-4590-97B7-830F60EA3F0F@imagineersystems.com> Cc: After Effects Mail List X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (11B511) Subject: Re: [AE] Tracking Iphone/Ipad screen replacement - green or not? Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2014 11:55:50 -0400 To: After Effects Mail List --Apple-Mail-3B3F9569-8B41-4E34-86FB-20A3AB7C4208 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On that note, a cool trick is to go into the clip tab in mocha and adjust th= e color space, gamma, etc. The clip tab color settings occur first in the st= ream, so it will influence the tracker, no need to render. That said, it is extremely rare that I use this technique.=20 Sent from my iPhone > On Jun 2, 2014, at 11:35 AM, "Teddy Gage" wrote:= >=20 > Hey if the shot is over or under exposed there is a trick I use to give mo= cha more tracking info - We were shooting very flat ARRIRAW 4444 for a proje= ct and I was having a really hard time tracking a few shots, so I re-rendere= d the footage with the LUT baked in and majorly boosted the levels contrast.= When I ran the footage back through Mocha it had a much easier time locking= on to the plane edges. Then I just applied the track to the original footag= e and it worked great. So try adding sharpening and balancing the histogram= , and re-rendering just for the tracking bits, it could help. Unfortunately y= ou do have to render it first, as mocha will not pick up any AE filters just= applied on the timeline >=20 >=20 >> On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 11:27 AM, Roei Tzoref wr= ote: >> thanks Ross, that sounds like a good compromise. >>=20 >> I will look in the tutorial as well. from scrubbing through I see it has= an ipad screen replacement with real reflections >> it looks proper lit (not like mine which is very dark and creates more pr= oblems). >>=20 >> about the shot to give I will contact you directly in a moment. >>=20 >>=20 >>> On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 6:12 PM, Ross Shain wro= te: >>> I would personally recommend avoiding green and simply have the device s= et to display a medium/dark grey screen that will show "some" reflection but= also give you visual reference of the screen edges against the black border= . In general, if you track the edges and avoid the actual screen, mocha shou= ld be fine. Also note, placing small white dots on a black screen is not nec= essarily going to "help" mocha. mocha's planar tracker is looking for textur= e. So if possible, use a pattern and not a "round, white dot".=20 >>>=20 >>> Here is a link to a free 1.5 hr training webinar that specifically cover= s using mocha for difficult screen inserts. I would highly recommend this to= any AE artist that has used mocha for the basics, but does not fully grasp s= ome of the more advanced techniques for avoiding reflections, handling the r= eally difficult tracks or the AdjustTrack module.=20 >>>=20 >>> http://www.imagineersystems.com/videos/webinar-replay-tracking-dificult-= screens-with-mocha/ >>>=20 >>> Imagineer is always looking for difficult tracking shots to use for tuto= rials and testing, so if you have any - please let me know.=20 >>>=20 >>> Cheers, >>> Ross >>>=20 >>> --=20 >>> Ross Shain >>> Chief Marketing Officer >>> Imagineer Systems - developers of mocha planar tracking and visual effec= ts tools. >>>=20 >>> www.imagineersystems.com=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>> On 2 June 2014 10:40, Teddy Gage wrote: >>>> We use small tracking target stickers at each corner of the screen and m= ocha takes care of the rest. How experienced are you with mocha? Even the mo= st difficult tracks can be accomplished manually but there are a lot of ways= to do it you may not know about. There are some great advanced tuts online e= ven pros could learn from. >>>>=20 >>>> We never use green because as you said it blocks reflections, but more i= mportantly you can get green spill on the actors that is harder to manage. >>>>=20 >>>>> On Jun 2, 2014 10:28 AM, "Roei Tzoref" wrote= : >>>>> Hey y'all >>>>>=20 >>>>> I recently tracked different kind of Iphone and Ipads screen replaceme= nts >>>>> with different methods, and cant be sure whats the optimal way of prep= aring the shoot. >>>>>=20 >>>>> my question is: >>>>> do you use green on iphone and ipads where good reflections are needed= to sell the shot? >>>>>=20 >>>>> my considerations are: >>>>> on one hand: >>>>> with green sticker -> better track and maybe easier roto, but you do h= ave to remove it >>>>> and no reflections. >>>>>=20 >>>>> on the other hand: >>>>> without green sticker -> more rotoscoping, sometimes difficult track, b= ut good reflections. >>>>>=20 >>>>> the way I decided doing it was with no green because mocha can track j= ust with >>>>> the shapes and proportions and the green I get usually its just a pain= to remove >>>>> and although helps me with the track, I do have to remove it and repla= ce it. and >>>>> usually it doesn't help me with keying it because the shot is lit for t= he main action >>>>> and not the green inside. the problem is I got a shot with bright sun b= ehind >>>>> and the track was very hard. a green would have at least help with the= shear shift. >>>>>=20 >>>>> what do you recommend as the best course of action for iphones and ipa= ds >>>>> and GUI screens in general (where you need the reflections)? >>>>>=20 >>>>> thanks >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> --=20 >>> Ross Shain >>> Chief Marketing Officer >>> Imagineer Systems - developers of mocha planar tracking and visual effec= ts tools. >>>=20 >>> www.imagineersystems.com=20 >>> Phone: +1.646.298.6458 | Fax: 646.808.0831 | Email: rosss@imagineersyste= ms.com >>>=20 >>> Find us online: >>> Facebook | Twitter | YouTube | Vimeo >=20 >=20 >=20 > --=20 > _____________________________ > VFX & Motion Graphic Artist > teddygage dot com --Apple-Mail-3B3F9569-8B41-4E34-86FB-20A3AB7C4208 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On that note, a cool trick is to go in= to the clip tab in mocha and adjust the color space, gamma, etc. The clip ta= b color settings occur first in the stream, so it will influence the tracker= , no need to render.

That said, it is extremely rar= e that I use this technique. 

Sent from my iPhone

= On Jun 2, 2014, at 11:35 AM, "Teddy Gage" <AE-List@media-motion.tv> wrote:

Hey if the shot is over or under expose= d there is a trick I use to give mocha more tracking info - We were shooting= very flat ARRIRAW 4444 for a project and I was having a really hard time tr= acking a few shots, so I re-rendered the footage with the LUT baked in and m= ajorly boosted the levels contrast. When I ran the footage back through Moch= a it had a much easier time locking on to the plane edges. Then I just appli= ed the track to the original footage and it worked great. So try adding shar= pening and balancing the  histogram, and re-rendering just for the trac= king bits, it could help. Unfortunately you do have to render it first, as m= ocha will not pick up any AE filters just applied on the timeline


On Mon, Jun 2,= 2014 at 11:27 AM, Roei Tzoref <AE-List@media-motion.tv>= wrote:
thanks Ross, that sounds like= a good compromise.

I will look in the tutorial as well. &= nbsp;from scrubbing through I see it has an ipad screen replacement with rea= l reflections
it looks proper lit (not like mine which is very dark and creates more p= roblems).

about the shot to give I will contact you directly i= n a moment.


On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 6:12 PM, Ross Shai= n <AE-List@media-motion.tv> wrote:
I w= ould personally recommend avoiding green and simply have the device set to d= isplay a medium/dark grey screen that will show "some" reflection but also g= ive you visual reference of the screen edges against the black border. In ge= neral, if you track the edges and avoid the actual screen, mocha should be f= ine. Also note, placing small white dots on a black screen is not necessaril= y going to "help" mocha. mocha's planar tracker is looking for texture. So i= f possible, use a pattern and not a "round, white dot". 

Here is a link to a free 1.5 hr training webinar that sp= ecifically covers using mocha for difficult screen inserts. I would highly r= ecommend this to any AE artist that has used mocha for the basics, but does n= ot fully grasp some of the more advanced techniques for avoiding reflections= , handling the really difficult tracks or the AdjustTrack module. 


Imagineer is always looking for difficult tracking= shots to use for tutorials and testing, so if you have any - please let me k= now. 

Cheers,
Ross

-- 
Ross Shain
C= hief Marketing Officer
Imagineer Systems - developers of mocha planar tracking and visual effects tools.

www.imagineersystems.com = ;


<= div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 2 June 2014 10:40, Teddy Gage <AE-List@me= dia-motion.tv> wrote:

We use small tracking target stickers at each c= orner of the screen and mocha takes care of the rest. How experienced are yo= u with mocha? Even the most difficult tracks can be accomplished manually bu= t there are a lot of ways to do it you may not know about. There are some gr= eat advanced tuts online even pros could learn from.

We never use green because as you said it blocks reflections,= but more importantly you can get green spill on the actors that is harder t= o manage.

On Jun 2, 2014 10:28 AM, "Roei Tzoref" <AE-List@media-motion.= tv> wrote:
Hey y'all

I recently tracked different kind of= Iphone and Ipads screen replacements
with different methods, and c= ant be sure whats the optimal way of preparing the shoot.

my question is:
do you use green on iphone and i= pads where good reflections are needed to sell the shot?

my considerations are:
on one hand:
with green sticker -> better track and maybe easier roto, but you do have= to remove it
and no reflections.

on the o= ther hand:
without green sticker -> more rotoscoping, sometimes= difficult track, but good reflections.

the way I decided doing it was with no green becau= se mocha can track just with
the shapes and proportions and the gr= een I get usually its just a pain to remove
and although helps me w= ith the track, I do have to remove it and replace it. and
usually it doesn't help me with keying it because the shot is lit for t= he main action
and not the green inside. the problem is I got a sh= ot with bright sun behind
and the track was very hard. a green wou= ld have at least help with the shear shift.

what do you recommend as the best course of action for i= phones and ipads
and GUI screens in general (where you need the re= flections)?

thanks




--
Ross Shain
Chief Marketing Officer
Imagineer Syst= ems - developers of mocha planar tracking and visual effects tools.
www.imagin= eersystems.com
Phone: +1.646.298.6458 | Fa= x: 646= .808.0831 | Email: rosss@imagineersystems.com

Find us online:
Facebook | Twitter | YouTube | Vimeo




--
_____________________________
VFX & Motion Graphic Artist
teddygage dot com
= --Apple-Mail-3B3F9569-8B41-4E34-86FB-20A3AB7C4208--