From: "Ross Shain" Received: from eu1sys200aog101.obsmtp.com ([207.126.144.111] verified) by media-motion.tv (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2.10) with SMTP id 5491745 for AE-List@media-motion.tv; Mon, 02 Jun 2014 18:33:47 +0200 Received: from mail-we0-f174.google.com ([74.125.82.174]) (using TLSv1) by eu1sys200aob101.postini.com ([207.126.147.11]) with SMTP ID DSNKU4ynax+c2MzLqpxYdSrboi+qQ6FdN8nF@postini.com; Mon, 02 Jun 2014 16:33:48 UTC Received: by mail-we0-f174.google.com with SMTP id k48so5393664wev.5 for ; Mon, 02 Jun 2014 09:33:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=gqubAdtA6YO79bQMlPkSGJa9ASljKcU52pkkQfFqGwo=; b=BBojaCCxw/AE7NZwi0KUY2ISfdA3zfc30Mp5pl+ZBz+qOJy7oJ8rYEYt9M4NgzjpE9 Lu1Q7WEORCnjuXV6snmbm1VBCHNzA57vNO8f0gSn1nsrqWiYVza/45el5WjOzOR+EP9I T/tE8Db8OBpsWOYcf3XKOrFuPPMNkhzifj2b1dl2p65yicIeWCF/wL06hRgfIdnm8rBK Zpm/niDJC94ncLqxAdX3liq7kKwrTHDYsRmuc/ijHC58/j6fXshhO9pc/XN8/V3IZM2u 7h0DTI8JtRlZ/dWVs5rDnXjeJ23rawRzfy6lUon+fAmb0aOWWiJGJbEb9GueMcjM32sh w8wQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQkghDXiq9FTV3viltHouztUtnO5izjtDDnOaSyyt13VJqmGbu9sie5w2n39ab+dwxZoQW6q91EOyveu21RJPTxMErBJLP3fPQ+pdcWBl49JPTF/IeA32qysF9vd2QoZRkw390Y6anapJ2uFKbRpy+h0A07Dlg== X-Received: by 10.180.109.69 with SMTP id hq5mr23656807wib.30.1401726827663; Mon, 02 Jun 2014 09:33:47 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.180.109.69 with SMTP id hq5mr23656662wib.30.1401726826420; Mon, 02 Jun 2014 09:33:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.1.198 with HTTP; Mon, 2 Jun 2014 09:33:46 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2014 12:33:46 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [AE] Tracking Iphone/Ipad screen replacement - green or not? To: After Effects Mail List Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e89a8f3baa078fb88e04fadcf551 --e89a8f3baa078fb88e04fadcf551 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hey Eric, My point about the track marks is simply a caution... sometimes customers send me footage in which there are round white track marks on black and mocha is not tracking as they expected. While this may help a point tracker (and might help mocha), if you do need to used tracker markers, I would advise using something with more "texture". Certainly corners are better then round! ;) Here is a link to some free marking images. http://cgi.tutsplus.com/tutorials/downloadable-tracking-markers-to-place-in-your-scene--ae-9047 I think the more complex patterns are generally better for mocha. As most seem to agree, for most realistic compositing, it is best to capture natural reflections and deal with roto, than insert a non-reflective image. On 2 June 2014 12:18, Mr. Eric D. Kirk wrote: > Well, all said and done, I guess I need to rethink the use of track dots > for my next screen replacement. > > Just for clarification though for those Mocha experts, if the dots are > ripped pieces of tape (essentially making them square), with more distinct > corners, does Mocha treat it any differently? > > I was always of the thought that something distinct is better than nothing. > > Thanks, > Eric > > > On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 11:55 AM, Ross Shain > wrote: > >> On that note, a cool trick is to go into the clip tab in mocha and adjust >> the color space, gamma, etc. The clip tab color settings occur first in the >> stream, so it will influence the tracker, no need to render. >> >> That said, it is extremely rare that I use this technique. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Jun 2, 2014, at 11:35 AM, "Teddy Gage" >> wrote: >> >> Hey if the shot is over or under exposed there is a trick I use to give >> mocha more tracking info - We were shooting very flat ARRIRAW 4444 for a >> project and I was having a really hard time tracking a few shots, so I >> re-rendered the footage with the LUT baked in and majorly boosted the >> levels contrast. When I ran the footage back through Mocha it had a much >> easier time locking on to the plane edges. Then I just applied the track to >> the original footage and it worked great. So try adding sharpening and >> balancing the histogram, and re-rendering just for the tracking bits, it >> could help. Unfortunately you do have to render it first, as mocha will not >> pick up any AE filters just applied on the timeline >> >> >> On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 11:27 AM, Roei Tzoref >> wrote: >> >>> thanks Ross, that sounds like a good compromise. >>> >>> I will look in the tutorial as well. from scrubbing through I see it >>> has an ipad screen replacement with real reflections >>> it looks proper lit (not like mine which is very dark and creates more >>> problems). >>> >>> about the shot to give I will contact you directly in a moment. >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 6:12 PM, Ross Shain >>> wrote: >>> >>>> I would personally recommend avoiding green and simply have the device >>>> set to display a medium/dark grey screen that will show "some" reflection >>>> but also give you visual reference of the screen edges against the black >>>> border. In general, if you track the edges and avoid the actual screen, >>>> mocha should be fine. Also note, placing small white dots on a black screen >>>> is not necessarily going to "help" mocha. mocha's planar tracker is looking >>>> for texture. So if possible, use a pattern and not a "round, white dot". >>>> >>>> Here is a link to a free 1.5 hr training webinar that specifically >>>> covers using mocha for difficult screen inserts. I would highly recommend >>>> this to any AE artist that has used mocha for the basics, but does not >>>> fully grasp some of the more advanced techniques for avoiding reflections, >>>> handling the really difficult tracks or the AdjustTrack module. >>>> >>>> >>>> http://www.imagineersystems.com/videos/webinar-replay-tracking-dificult-screens-with-mocha/ >>>> >>>> Imagineer is always looking for difficult tracking shots to use for >>>> tutorials and testing, so if you have any - please let me know. >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Ross >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Ross Shain >>>> Chief Marketing Officer >>>> Imagineer Systems - developers of* mocha* planar tracking and visual >>>> effects tools. >>>> >>>> www.imagineersystems.com >>>> >>>> >>>> On 2 June 2014 10:40, Teddy Gage wrote: >>>> >>>>> We use small tracking target stickers at each corner of the screen and >>>>> mocha takes care of the rest. How experienced are you with mocha? Even the >>>>> most difficult tracks can be accomplished manually but there are a lot of >>>>> ways to do it you may not know about. There are some great advanced tuts >>>>> online even pros could learn from. >>>>> >>>>> We never use green because as you said it blocks reflections, but more >>>>> importantly you can get green spill on the actors that is harder to manage. >>>>> On Jun 2, 2014 10:28 AM, "Roei Tzoref" >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hey y'all >>>>>> >>>>>> I recently tracked different kind of Iphone and Ipads screen >>>>>> replacements >>>>>> with different methods, and cant be sure whats the optimal way of >>>>>> preparing the shoot. >>>>>> >>>>>> my question is: >>>>>> *do you use green on iphone and ipads where **good reflections are >>>>>> needed to sell the shot?* >>>>>> >>>>>> my considerations are: >>>>>> on one hand: >>>>>> with green sticker -> better track and maybe easier roto, but you do >>>>>> have to remove it >>>>>> and no reflections. >>>>>> >>>>>> on the other hand: >>>>>> without green sticker -> more rotoscoping, sometimes difficult track, >>>>>> but good reflections. >>>>>> >>>>>> the way I decided doing it was with no green because mocha can track >>>>>> just with >>>>>> the shapes and proportions and the green I get usually its just a >>>>>> pain to remove >>>>>> and although helps me with the track, I do have to remove it and >>>>>> replace it. and >>>>>> usually it doesn't help me with keying it because the shot is lit for >>>>>> the main action >>>>>> and not the green inside. the problem is I got a shot with bright sun >>>>>> behind >>>>>> and the track was very hard. a green would have at least help with >>>>>> the shear shift. >>>>>> >>>>>> what do you recommend as the best course of action for iphones and >>>>>> ipads >>>>>> and GUI screens in general (where you need the reflections)? >>>>>> >>>>>> thanks >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Ross Shain >>>> Chief Marketing Officer >>>> Imagineer Systems - developers of* mocha* planar tracking and visual >>>> effects tools. >>>> >>>> www.imagineersystems.com >>>> Phone: +1.646.298.6458 | Fax: 646.808.0831 | Email: >>>> rosss@imagineersystems.com >>>> >>>> Find us online: >>>> Facebook | Twitter >>>> | YouTube >>>> | Vimeo >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> _____________________________ >> VFX & Motion Graphic Artist >> teddygage dot com >> >> > > > -- > *Eric D. Kirk | **Kirk Productions* > *Hidden in the Woods | VFX* > *The Night Visitor | VFX* > *443.206.1347 <443.206.1347>* > > *www.kirkproductions.com > kirkproductions@gmail.com > * > *IMDB: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm3351363/ > * > > -- Ross Shain Chief Marketing Officer Imagineer Systems - developers of* mocha* planar tracking and visual effects tools. www.imagineersystems.com Phone: +1.646.298.6458 | Fax: 646.808.0831 | Email: rosss@imagineersystems.com Find us online: Facebook | Twitter | YouTube | Vimeo --e89a8f3baa078fb88e04fadcf551 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hey Eric,=C2=A0
My point about the track marks is simp= ly a caution... sometimes customers send me footage in which there are roun= d white track marks on black and mocha is not tracking as they expected.=C2= =A0

While this may help a point tracker (and might help moc= ha), if you do need to used tracker markers, I would advise using something= with more "texture". Certainly corners are better then round! ;)=


I think the more complex patterns are generally better = for mocha. As most seem to agree, for most realistic compositing, it is bes= t to capture natural reflections and deal with roto, than insert a non-refl= ective image.=C2=A0



On 2 June 2014 12:18, Mr. Eric D. Kirk <AE-List@media-motion= .tv> wrote:
Well, all said and don= e, I guess I need to rethink the use of track dots for my next screen repla= cement.
=C2=A0
Just for clarification though for those Mocha experts= , if the dots are ripped pieces of tape (essentially making them square), w= ith more distinct corners, does Mocha treat it any differently?
=C2=A0
I was always of the thought that something distinct i= s better than nothing.
=C2=A0
Thanks,
Eric


On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 11:55 AM, Ross Shain <AE-List@media-motion.= tv> wrote:
On that note, a cool = trick is to go into the clip tab in mocha and adjust the color space, gamma= , etc. The clip tab color settings occur first in the stream, so it will in= fluence the tracker, no need to render.

That said, it is extremely rare that I use this techniq= ue.=C2=A0

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 2, 2014, at 11:35= AM, "Teddy Gage" <AE-List@media-motion.tv> wrote:

Hey if the shot i= s over or under exposed there is a trick I use to give mocha more tracking = info - We were shooting very flat ARRIRAW 4444 for a project and I was havi= ng a really hard time tracking a few shots, so I re-rendered the footage wi= th the LUT baked in and majorly boosted the levels contrast. When I ran the= footage back through Mocha it had a much easier time locking on to the pla= ne edges. Then I just applied the track to the original footage and it work= ed great. So try adding sharpening and balancing the =C2=A0histogram, and r= e-rendering just for the tracking bits, it could help. Unfortunately you do= have to render it first, as mocha will not pick up any AE filters just app= lied on the timeline


On Mon, Jun 2= , 2014 at 11:27 AM, Roei Tzoref <AE-List@media-motion.tv> wrote:
thanks Ross, that sounds like a good comp= romise.

I will look in the tutorial as well. =C2=A0from scrubbing th= rough I see it has an ipad screen replacement with real reflections
it looks proper lit (not like mine which is very dark and creates more= problems).

about the shot to give I will contact you directly= in a moment.


On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 6:12 PM, Ross Shain <AE-List@media-motion.tv> wrote:
I would personally recomm= end avoiding green and simply have the device set to display a medium/dark = grey screen that will show "some" reflection but also give you vi= sual reference of the screen edges against the black border. In general, if= you track the edges and avoid the actual screen, mocha should be fine. Als= o note, placing small white dots on a black screen is not necessarily going= to "help" mocha. mocha's planar tracker is looking for textu= re. So if possible, use a pattern and not a "round, white dot".= =C2=A0

Here is a link to a free 1.5 hr training webinar that s= pecifically covers using mocha for difficult screen inserts. I would highly= recommend this to any AE artist that has used mocha for the basics, but do= es not fully grasp some of the more advanced techniques for avoiding reflec= tions, handling the really difficult tracks or the AdjustTrack module.=C2= =A0


Imagineer is always looking for difficult trackin= g shots to use for tutorials and testing, so if you have any - please let m= e know.=C2=A0

Cheers,
Ross

--=C2=A0
Ross Shain
= Chief Marketing Officer
Imagineer Systems - developers of=C2=A0mocha<= /b>=C2=A0planar tracking and visual effects tools.

www.imagineersystems.com= =C2=A0


On 2 June 2014 10:40, Teddy Gage <AE-List@media-motion= .tv> wrote:

We use small tracking target stickers at ea= ch corner of the screen and mocha takes care of the rest. How experienced a= re you with mocha? Even the most difficult tracks can be accomplished manua= lly but there are a lot of ways to do it you may not know about. There are = some great advanced tuts online even pros could learn from.

We never use green because as you said it blocks reflections= , but more importantly you can get green spill on the actors that is harder= to manage.

On Jun 2, 2014 10:28 AM, "Roei Tzoref"= <AE-List@m= edia-motion.tv> wrote:
Hey y'all

I recently tracked different ki= nd of Iphone and Ipads screen replacements
with different methods= , and cant be sure whats the optimal way of preparing the shoot.

my question is:
do you use green on iphone and = ipads where=C2=A0good reflections are needed to sell the shot?

my considerations are:
on one hand:
with green sticker -> better track and maybe easier roto, but you do hav= e to remove it
and no reflections.

on th= e other hand:
without green sticker -> more rotoscoping, somet= imes difficult track, but good reflections.

the way I decided doing it was with no green beca= use mocha can track just with
the shapes and proportions and the = green I get usually its just a pain to remove
and although helps = me with the track, I do have to remove it and replace it. and
usually it doesn't help me with keying it because the shot is lit = for the main action
and not the green inside. the problem is I go= t a shot with bright sun behind
and the track was very hard. a gr= een would have at least help with the shear shift.

what do you recommend as the best course of action for = iphones and ipads
and GUI screens in general (where you need the = reflections)?

thanks




<= /div>
--
Ross Shain
Chief Marketing Officer
Imagineer Systems - de= velopers of mocha planar tracking and visual effects tools.

www.imagi= neersystems.com
Phone: +1.646.298.6458 = | Fax: 646.808.0831 | Email: rosss@imagineersystems.com

Find us online:
Facebook | Twitter | YouTube=C2=A0| Vimeo




--
__________________= ___________
VFX & Motion G= raphic Artist
teddygage dot com



--
Eric D. Kirk |=C2=A0= Kirk Productions
Hidden in the Woods | VFX
The Night Visitor | VFX
=C2=A0



--
Ross Shain
Chief Marketing Officer
Imagineer Sy= stems - developers of mocha planar tracking and visual effects tools= .

www.imagi= neersystems.com
Phone: +1.646.298.6458 | Fa= x: 646.808.0831 | Email: rosss@imagineersystems.com

Find us online:
Facebook | Twitter | YouTube=C2=A0| Vimeo
--e89a8f3baa078fb88e04fadcf551--