From: "Byron Nash" Received: from mail-lb0-f175.google.com ([209.85.217.175] verified) by media-motion.tv (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2.10) with ESMTP-TLS id 5498661 for AE-List@media-motion.tv; Tue, 10 Jun 2014 21:28:59 +0200 Received: by mail-lb0-f175.google.com with SMTP id l4so4159949lbv.6 for ; Tue, 10 Jun 2014 12:28:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-type; bh=zbP13mdzsn5Ed+6wvPih5f7pGn4RalUu1UO2h+3NzZw=; b=efx1tnZvlR/o+OMoae2KxBovJldzyF4ArCgIG/DnhQg4ryU9bo2wvvsxQpuZrhfzWm aOzINXDr1kuWusqOPbSDi3gGSGGDjJb0ltKg4uJnDWZS2Tb6QUtpsExrB0FxWtJ167i2 lO3KMb0WGlVCMpuivNuv0Al/6SeAq5w+V/Uz+JDdlBJ0Y8MY5KrXwvDjHu3w8ZcAmdc/ hqKTJCW2uymtL+HfM6pKuqQU2iHkq77Y2pEQF44fRUGmLHqHKPd4Wvb27o3Sdc9wSLSm bfqC/ZscxdMbHguBXzm+jKQ3KrenPEfO76jJ35zGiYyZ09wiUWHT5RIqDalc1eNio2My dIJA== X-Received: by 10.152.234.229 with SMTP id uh5mr3016039lac.56.1402428539107; Tue, 10 Jun 2014 12:28:59 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.152.5.199 with HTTP; Tue, 10 Jun 2014 12:28:38 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2014 15:28:38 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [AE] Lossless movie format To: After Effects Mail List Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1133a6fae582ca04fb805648 --001a1133a6fae582ca04fb805648 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 I'm very excited you are moving forward with this Brendan! I love the name(mox or MOX) too. I second the comments made from everyone. I agree with Teddy that extra channels would be really helpful along with 32bit color as well. There aren't many options for rendering when you need 32bit or alpha channels. If you could make the channels arbitrary like openEXR, that would be even better. Being able to embed multiple alphas, or depth or some other thing into the video would be great. Here's my summary 1. Open and Ubiquitous 2. cross platform 3. Extensible 4. Accurate color/gamma 5. 32bit floating point color 6. arbitrary channels 7. metadata 8. fast 9. stable On Mon, Jun 9, 2014 at 3:07 PM, Teddy Gage wrote: > What those guys said. Could not have said it better myself. > > I would put in a vote for embedding codec within media file - is that even > possible? seems tricky considering there may be revisions and updates to > the source? > > My request would be for EXR-like multiple layer support, but maybe that's > asking too much. But even an extra channel or two for depth passes etc > would be amazing. I've always wanted a PSD-like layered video file that > didnt have the 32bit requirement overhead of EXR. You could export multiple > tracks of animation at once, in a compressed 8bit format, like a layered > video .tiff... > > > > On Mon, Jun 9, 2014 at 2:03 PM, Steve Oakley > wrote: > >> codecs not installed is the #1 problem of QT, especially ProRes on PC, or >> QT in general on PC. more of a problem with non-video types. >> >> #2 gamma problems. >> >> no one I work with uses OMF so I don't have those problems. >> >> MXF Folders..."smart" producers who pull the media files out of the >> folders and hand those off :( but since this is going to be a single file >> format, not a problem. >> >> >> so really the big goals should be : >> >> no codec install problems - apps should natively support the format. >> however, as BACKUP having a QT/AVfoundation component might also be a good >> idea to get MOX files open in apps that due use QT but don't have native >> support. this might be really important to small developer's that don't >> have the resources of larger ones. >> >> auto code updates - part of the API should be that if the codec is >> updated, the app can go pull it down from the web if its 1.2 and the file >> content is 2.0. >> >> ************ >>>>>>> >> >> in fact here is an idea - Put the codec IN the media file as an option. >> this would guarantee codec install problems would never be a problem. its a >> minor bit of file bloat but if the actual codec code is a couple kb, even >> 50kb thats really nothing. this would solve all sorts of problems around >> users not having the latest codec, or correct one assuming down the road >> MOX opens up and extends to new codecs. >> >> ----------------------- >> >> enough metadata to also have good gamma / FPS / log curve / Camera >> viewing LUT / TC interpretation by apps supporting the format. options like >> camera info would also be good. >> >> S >> >> On Jun 9, 2014, at 12:15 PM, Brendan Bolles >> wrote: >> >> > On Jun 8, 2014, at 12:05 PM, Louai Abu-Osba wrote: >> > >> >> I hadn't realized this picked up again. I'm so beyond excited. I think >> MOX is a great name and I love the proposal. >> > >> > >> > Thanks for the encouragement, Louai. >> > >> > I have a question for everyone: what have been your past struggles with >> existing file formats that you hope to solve with MOX? >> > >> > In other words: let's hear your rant about QuickTime/AVI/OMF/etc. >> > >> > >> > Your responses will help me with the Kickstarter video and other >> messaging blah blah blah. >> > >> > >> > Brendan >> > >> > >> > +---End of message---+ >> > To unsubscribe send any message to >> >> >> +---End of message---+ >> To unsubscribe send any message to >> > > > > -- > _____________________________ > VFX & Motion Graphic Artist > teddygage dot com > --001a1133a6fae582ca04fb805648 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I'm very excited you are moving forward with this Bren= dan! I love the name(mox or MOX) too.=C2=A0

I second the= comments made from everyone. I agree with Teddy that extra channels would = be really helpful along with 32bit color as well. There aren't many opt= ions for rendering when you need 32bit or alpha channels. If you could make= the channels arbitrary like openEXR, that would be even better. Being able= to embed multiple alphas, or depth or some other thing into the video woul= d be great.=C2=A0

Here's my summary
  1. Open and Ubiqui= tous
  2. cross platform
  3. Extensible
  4. Accurate color/gamma=
  5. 32bit floating point color
  6. arbitrary channels
  7. metadata=C2=A0
  8. fast
  9. stable


On Mon, Jun 9, 2014 at = 3:07 PM, Teddy Gage <AE-List@media-motion.tv> wrote:
What those guys said. Could= not have said it better myself.

I would put in a vote f= or embedding codec within media file - is that even possible? seems tricky = considering there may be revisions and updates to the source?

My request would be for EXR-like multiple layer support= , but maybe that's asking too much. But even an extra channel or two fo= r depth passes etc would be amazing. I've always wanted a PSD-like laye= red video file that didnt have the 32bit requirement overhead of EXR. You c= ould export multiple tracks of animation at once, in a compressed 8bit form= at, like a layered video .tiff...


=
On Mon, Jun 9, 2014 at 2:03 PM, Steve Oakley= <AE-List@media-motion.tv> wrote:
codecs not installed is the #1 problem of QT= , especially ProRes on PC, or QT in general on PC. more of a problem with n= on-video types.

=C2=A0#2 gamma problems.

no one I work with uses OMF so I don't have those problems.

MXF Folders..."smart" producers who pull the media files out of t= he folders and hand those off :( but since this is going to be a single fil= e format, not a problem.


so really the big goals should be :

no codec install problems - apps should natively support the format. howeve= r, as BACKUP having a QT/AVfoundation component might also be a good idea t= o get MOX files open in apps that due use QT but don't have native supp= ort. this might be really important to small developer's that don't= have the resources of larger ones.

auto code updates - part of the API should be that if the codec is updated,= the app can go pull it down from the web if its 1.2 and the file content i= s 2.0.

************ >>>>>>>

in fact here is an idea - Put the codec IN the media file as an option. thi= s would guarantee codec install problems would never be a problem. its a mi= nor bit of file bloat but if the actual codec code is a couple kb, even 50k= b thats really nothing. this would solve all sorts of problems around users= not having the latest codec, or correct one assuming down the road MOX ope= ns up and extends to new codecs.

-----------------------

enough metadata to also have good gamma / FPS / log curve / Camera viewing = LUT / TC interpretation by apps supporting the format. options like camera = info would also be good.

S

On Jun 9, 2014, at 12:15 PM, Brendan Bolles <AE-List@media-motion.tv> wrote:
> On Jun 8, 2014, at 12:05 PM, Louai Abu-Osba wrote:
>
>> I hadn't realized this picked up again. I'm so beyond exci= ted. I think MOX is a great name and I love the proposal.
>
>
> Thanks for the encouragement, Louai.
>
> I have a question for everyone: what have been your past struggles wit= h existing file formats that you hope to solve with MOX?
>
> In other words: let's hear your rant about QuickTime/AVI/OMF/etc.<= br> >
>
> Your responses will help me with the Kickstarter video and other messa= ging blah blah blah.
>
>
> Brendan
>
>
> +---End of message---+
> To unsubscribe send any message to <ae-list-off@media-motion.tv>


+---End of message---+
To unsubscribe send any message to <ae-list-off@media-motion.tv>



<= /div>
--
________= _____________________
VFX &= ; Motion Graphic Artist
teddygage dot com

--001a1133a6fae582ca04fb805648--