From: "Steve Oakley" Received: from mout.perfora.net ([74.208.4.194] verified) by media-motion.tv (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2.10) with ESMTP-TLS id 5514478 for AE-List@media-motion.tv; Sat, 28 Jun 2014 19:05:35 +0200 Received: from [192.168.1.254] (68-115-56-58.static.eucl.wi.charter.com [68.115.56.58]) by mrelay.perfora.net (node=mrus0) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0LyFqf-1Wdqe12kYH-015Awu; Sat, 28 Jun 2014 13:05:34 -0400 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_81E19879-FBA8-4135-AE1B-6C52CA8524B4" Message-Id: <4D8580CB-2436-435D-A4B2-009CC54FFCC3@practicalillusions.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.2\)) Subject: Re: [AE] Depreciated output formats gone completely in AE 2014 Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2014 12:05:32 -0500 References: To: After Effects Mail List In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.2) X-Provags-ID: V02:K0:RoI8syRgVyrNtn8GjlXsN/684rD6dopfdjo57Y8NL0e EYVwTtkDc/QllKrTiTQ0Iv0IAWLvdxtmk062kDO2ZB/Vgvp7hX O+LwVQeFNnMjM3qIuW/DZZn2FZBzuTCzFm+S02VueehsRF4DoS g01LypcqPEUtO8HRZJfQV8l2p7YrtvCvkyEoaD+jACkhKC4s6V aeXaguTnD1eUTUWFLAo8jHh7Agf0Et9+m4yQBhRltdU/ygfZKC kYY6YooubNYTAo+17sBYYyZ8Ispr92KzbzJrkp9UZq3SdvjXfI YKlQz0NAQfAbSzfiHjwc7heVKnD//h723zxYRJQAWfsANoFLJd r7l9wRy2BZKxE1TRL5kAjr2Iu4lCwpqRpXs04TKasumHESPJJI ODWdL0ecrwqgEAh0noMdy7ByX3r1rAo4AI= --Apple-Mail=_81E19879-FBA8-4135-AE1B-6C52CA8524B4 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 you can use the AVCintra 100 and 200 for 422 10bit the problem, which I've filed a feature request for is to eliminate in = AME and the export dialog ambiguous settings of "max bit depth" and = actually change them to state whats going on for real based on the = codec. while h.264 can be 10bit +, so can ProRes 4444. the problem is = the generic settings don't tell you whats really going on. its quite = possible adobe's h.264 encoder supports 12 bit but there is no way to = enable it.... and for most folks 10bit is way more than good enough = considering we still live in a mostly 8bit world. S On Jun 28, 2014, at 12:20 AM, Stephen van Vuuren = wrote: > > to be a broken record, h.264 is NOT just web video. its capable of = iFrame, deep color and high bit rates. please see = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H.264 for a starter. > =20 > Not arguing there =96 but not aware of any Adobe or common NLE etc. = encoders that support 10-bit iframe 444 H.264 and certainly not the = deprecated AE format unless I was totally missing something. > =20 > But the larger issue here is that h.264 vs say ProRes 4444 is = analogous to a DCDM vs a DCP in digital cinema. DCP is not your master, = it=92s your distribution master. It=92s like keeping your audio masters = at 320KB CBR MP3. Just not smart workflow/archiving in my view. > =20 > stephen van vuuren > 336.202.4777 > =20 > http://www.insaturnsrings.com/ > http://www.sv2dcp.com/ > http://www.sv2studios.com/ > =20 > A film is =96 or should be =96 more like music than like fiction. It = should be a progression of moods and feelings. The theme, what=92s = behind the emotion, the meaning, all that comes later. > =96Stanley Kubrick > =20 > From: After Effects Mail List [mailto:AE-List@media-motion.tv]=20 > Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2014 12:09 AM > To: After Effects Mail List > Subject: Re: [AE] Depreciated output formats gone completely in AE = 2014 > =20 > to be a broken record, h.264 is NOT just web video. its capable of = iFrame, deep color and high bit rates. please see = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H.264 for a starter. > =20 > then realize panasonic P2 cameras record AVCintra 100 and 200 mbit 10 = bit, basically equal to ProRes 422 and HQ. HDcam SR 440mbit is based on = h.264 > =20 > its a perfectly good delivery format if you use the higher end specs > =20 > S > =20 > On Jun 26, 2014, at 2:11 PM, Stephen van Vuuren = wrote: >=20 >=20 > I will chime in that on some of my boxes I had stopped using AE for = H.264 due to crashes with export and started using AME and never had an = issue or crash. > =20 > The one downside to AME is not having an export history saved with the = project =96 not sure if that is even possible. > =20 > But h.264 as a final for clients? I can=92t imagine doing that. ProRes = 422 or Avid is about as uncompressed I would ever deliver. H.264 is just = a proof/web format as it just won=92t holdup to much after that. > =20 > stephen van vuuren > 336.202.4777 > =20 > http://www.insaturnsrings.com/ > http://www.sv2dcp.com/ > http://www.sv2studios.com/ > =20 > A film is =96 or should be =96 more like music than like fiction. It = should be a progression of moods and feelings. The theme, what=92s = behind the emotion, the meaning, all that comes later. > =96Stanley Kubrick > =20 > From: After Effects Mail List [mailto:AE-List@media-motion.tv]=20 > Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2014 2:45 PM > To: After Effects Mail List > Subject: Re: [AE] Depreciated output formats gone completely in AE = 2014 > =20 > I can vouch for this exact approach. Here=92s a sample from last = weekend, exported via AME using the Vimeo 1080p 29.97 preset. > =20 > https://vimeo.com/98827113 > =20 > Brian >=20 >=20 >=20 > You're asking for output directly from After Effects, but my answer is = to use the Vimeo encoding presets in Adobe Media Encoder. > =20 > Just render and export a losslessly encoded master from After Effects = into a watch folder that AME is monitoring, and let AME create the Vimeo = file. > =20 > =20 > From: After Effects Mail List [mailto:AE-List@media-motion.tv] > =20 > What is a better alternative than .MOV H.264 for optimal qualityute = for upload to Vimeo? > =20 > Requirements: 24 fps, 1080p, 44kHz Stereo, size < 200 Mb per 60 sec of = video, direct render from AE output. --Apple-Mail=_81E19879-FBA8-4135-AE1B-6C52CA8524B4 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 you = can use the AVCintra 100 and 200 for 422 10bit

the = problem, which I've filed a feature request for is to eliminate in AME = and the export dialog ambiguous settings of "max bit depth" and actually = change them to state whats going on for real based on the codec. while = h.264 can be 10bit +, so can ProRes 4444. the problem is the generic = settings don't tell you whats really going on. its quite possible = adobe's h.264 encoder supports 12 bit but there is no way to enable = it.... and for most folks 10bit is way more than good enough considering = we still live in a mostly 8bit = world.

S

On Jun 28, = 2014, at 12:20 AM, Stephen van Vuuren <AE-List@media-motion.tv> = wrote:

> to be a broken record, = h.264 is NOT just web video. its capable of iFrame, deep color and high = bit rates. please see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H.264 for a = starter.
 
Not arguing there =96 but not aware of any Adobe or = common NLE etc. encoders that support 10-bit iframe 444 H.264 and = certainly not the deprecated AE format unless I was totally missing = something.
 
But the larger issue here is that h.264 vs say ProRes = 4444 is analogous to a DCDM vs a DCP in digital cinema. DCP is not your = master, it=92s your distribution master. It=92s like keeping your audio = masters at 320KB CBR MP3. Just not smart workflow/archiving in my = view.
 
A film is =96 or should be =96 more like music than = like fiction. It should be a progression of moods and feelings. The = theme, what=92s behind the emotion, the meaning, all that comes = later.
=96Stanley = Kubrick
 
From: After Effects Mail List [mailto:AE-List@media-motion.tv] 
Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2014 = 12:09 AM
To: After Effects Mail = List
Subject: Re: [AE] Depreciated output = formats gone completely in AE = 2014
 
to be a broken = record, h.264 is NOT just web video. its capable of iFrame, deep color = and high bit rates. please see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H.264 for a = starter.
 
then = realize panasonic P2 cameras record AVCintra 100 and 200 mbit 10 bit, = basically equal to ProRes 422 and HQ. HDcam SR 440mbit is based on = h.264
 
its a = perfectly good delivery format if you use the higher end = specs
 
S
 
On = Jun 26, 2014, at 2:11 PM, Stephen van Vuuren <AE-List@media-motion.tv> = wrote:


I will chime in that on some of my boxes I had = stopped using AE for H.264 due to crashes with export and started using = AME and never had an issue or = crash.
 
The one downside to AME = is not having an export history saved with the project =96 not sure if = that is even possible.
 
But h.264 as a final for clients? = I can=92t imagine doing that. ProRes 422 or Avid is about as = uncompressed I would ever deliver. H.264 is just a proof/web format as = it just won=92t holdup to much after = that.
 
stephen van = vuuren
336.202.4777
 
 
A film is =96 or should be =96 = more like music than like fiction. It should be a progression of moods = and feelings. The theme, what=92s behind the emotion, the meaning, all = that comes later.
=96Stanley = Kubrick
 
From: After Effects Mail List [mailto:AE-List@media-motion.tv] 
Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2014 = 2:45 PM
To: After Effects Mail = List
Subject: Re: [AE] Depreciated output = formats gone completely in AE = 2014
 
I can = vouch for this exact approach. Here=92s a sample from last weekend, = exported via AME using the Vimeo 1080p 29.97 = preset.
 
=
 
Brian



You're asking for output directly = from After Effects, but my answer is to use the Vimeo encoding presets = in Adobe Media Encoder.
 
Just render and export a = losslessly encoded master from After Effects into a watch folder that = AME is monitoring, and let AME create the Vimeo = file.
 
 
From: After Effects Mail List [mailto:AE-List@media-motion.tv]
 
What is a better alternative than .MOV H.264 for optimal = qualityute for upload to Vimeo?
 
Requirements: 24 fps, 1080p, 44kHz Stereo, size < 200 Mb = per 60 sec of video, direct render from AE = output.

= --Apple-Mail=_81E19879-FBA8-4135-AE1B-6C52CA8524B4--