From: "scott.aelist" Received: from mail-wi0-f179.google.com ([209.85.212.179] verified) by media-motion.tv (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2.10) with ESMTP-TLS id 5516207 for AE-List@media-motion.tv; Tue, 01 Jul 2014 21:13:01 +0200 Received: by mail-wi0-f179.google.com with SMTP id cc10so8335683wib.6 for ; Tue, 01 Jul 2014 12:13:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:content-type; bh=MZcFRVJ4Vqah6l6UQsd0NdefjvqGFmERWO5VmgJxgIk=; b=j8gkKa8poR0piof1kFFeq8unESvDa7tbOfPzduRTX5/kxMYJ/lrgjyM3vqgbt6uBVp o59j8yZ36wZZdif/Gcmtdiifk9PcafvLVuL1WSlt8qR6ce/1Aj45Cg3Wa6fw2LRLE+2R LhT5NJ3Ge/oEz6R7bEOXT+btEhg/VtNJGIMOhexkqkJgImaoRwAb7bwFzT+IT6FPltQ8 /QFzRZT8/Pmfk2o3P4C0NmAr9NN9R4SgWQTsDLmi/gvHymThWES2Ow40VSc7+XMHMc+J WAr7+IgdhWth5v2i8IeZTDZhPtw+gQk4ChfTvxogsXOeMf0XjIRVMp+eYFAD0SLdDHLu Rr3g== X-Received: by 10.194.91.144 with SMTP id ce16mr53189356wjb.18.1404241981301; Tue, 01 Jul 2014 12:13:01 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: hedczech@gmail.com Received: by 10.217.146.138 with HTTP; Tue, 1 Jul 2014 12:12:21 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2014 12:12:21 -0700 X-Google-Sender-Auth: MXMD4vInWPa71NGxmJGpjP94R_k Message-ID: Subject: Re: [AE] [OT] a WTF ad for an animator, with reply To: After Effects Mail List Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7bfd05a679688c04fd2690e4 --047d7bfd05a679688c04fd2690e4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > Yes there has been a democratization of tools... Exactly. You don't hear copywriters complaining that 14 year olds armed with 'pencils' are stealing all their work. On Tue, Jul 1, 2014 at 10:47 AM, Tony Romain wrote: > Too add to this... I think there is also a bit of a fantasy about this > mythic 14 year old working out of their basement taking all these jobs > away. Yes there has been a democratization of tools... if there hadn't > been, graphics would still be done in Flame suites at $600/hour... I know a > lot of linear bay online editors and Flame operators still bemoaning the > rise of after effects and avid as job killers... And yes, there are tons of > young kids/teens turning out somewhat well produced work. But I have yet > to come across anyone in this age group who knows anything about project > management, meeting deadlines, dealing with notes/revisions... I'd say this > stuff constitutes more than 50% of what goes into turning out professional > work... > > > > > -- > *tony romain* *|* *principal/creative director* > > *trance* > *motion graphic animation and design* > 323 651 1114 > www.trancedesigns.com > > From: AE list > Reply-To: AE list > Date: Tuesday, July 1, 2014 10:34 AM > To: AE list > Subject: Re: [AE] [OT] a WTF ad for an animator, with reply > > In my experience the clients pay me to produce exactly what they are > asking for, quickly. Not from a template, and changes need to be made on > the fly. I demand a high rate because of my experience, client management, > listening skills, style and professionalism. Lets just say it took me years > longer to work out the business end than the pure technical know-how. That > being said, if you are not up to date with current trends and software, you > will be left behind. Thats always how it has been. Unfortunate but true. We > work in a competitive industry that is fun and creative, and especially in > new york, there are always people willing to do it for free, just to learn. > But smart clients will always know the difference. You pay for amateur work > in other ways, like frustration, miscommunication, speed, and polish. I > think that will never change. And just like us "creatives," (a word I hate) > there are amateur clients as well. Learning to know the difference should > be part of one's education as well. Sometimes you are more > profitable saying no to a job you'll regret... > > On Tuesday, July 1, 2014, Rick Gerard wrote: > >> It looks like it's a $5 minimum payment plus extras... The extras are >> awfully cheap. >> >> The saddest thing about this business is that a 14 year old now has >> access to the same tools that a production house has and there are enough >> templates out there that it takes no skill or imagination to produce >> something that looks like something already produced. Design skills and >> creativity still demand a fairly high price point, but neat looking clones >> of an existing idea are cheap. >> >> The point of my comment, if you want to only be a technician then you >> have to accept technicians wages. There are a lot of very capable 14 year >> old technicians out there that don't have to pay any bills so the price is >> in the toilet. >> >> Rick Gerard >> >> --047d7bfd05a679688c04fd2690e4 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> Yes there has been a democratization of tools&he= llip;

Exactly. You don't hear copywriters complaining that= 14 year olds armed with 'pencils' are stealing all their work.


On Tue, Jul 1= , 2014 at 10:47 AM, Tony Romain <AE-List@media-motion.tv> wrote:
Too a= dd to this…  I think there is also a bit of a fantasy about thi= s mythic 14 year old working out of their basement taking all these jobs aw= ay.  Yes there has been a democratization of tools…  if th= ere hadn't been, graphics would still be done in Flame suites at $600/h= our…  I know a lot of linear bay online editors and Flame opera= tors still bemoaning the rise of after effects and avid as job killers&hell= ip;  And yes, there are tons of young kids/teens turning out somewhat = well produced work.  But I have yet to come across anyone in this age = group who knows anything about project management, meeting deadlines, deali= ng with notes/revisions…  I'd say this stuff constitutes mo= re than 50% of what goes into turning out professional work…




--
tony roma= in | principal/creative= director

trance
motion graphic animation and design
<= /div>

From: AE list <AE-List@media-motion.tv>= ;
Reply-To: AE list <AE-List@media-motion.= tv>
Date: Tuesday, July 1, 2014 10:34 = AM
To: AE list <AE-List@media-motion.tv>
Subject: Re: [AE] [OT] a WTF ad fo= r an animator, with reply

     In my exper= ience the clients pay me to produce exactly what they are asking for, = quickly. Not from a template, and changes need to be made on the fly.&= nbsp;I demand a high rate because of my experience, client management, list= ening skills, style and professionalism. Lets just say it took me year= s longer to work out the business end than the pure technical know-how= . That being said, if you are not up to date with current trends and softwa= re, you will be left behind. Thats always how it has been. Unfortunate= but true. We work in a competitive industry that is fun and creative, and = especially in new york, there are always people willing to do it for f= ree, just to learn. But smart clients will always know the difference.= You pay for amateur work in other ways, like frustration, miscommunication= , speed, and polish. I think that will never change. And just like us = "creatives," (a word I hate) there are amateur clients as well. L= earning to know the difference should be part of one's educat= ion as well. Sometimes you are more profitable saying no to a job= you'll regret...

On Tuesday, July 1, 2014, = Rick Gerard <AE-List@media= -motion.tv&= gt; wrote:
It looks like it’s a $5 minimum p= ayment plus extras… The extras are awfully cheap. 

The saddest thing about this business is that a 14 year old now has = access to the same tools that a production house has and there are enough t= emplates out there that it takes no skill or imagination to produce somethi= ng that looks like something already produced. Design skills and creativity= still demand a fairly high price point, but neat looking clones of an exis= ting idea are cheap. 

The point of my comment, if you want to only be a techn= ician then you have to accept technicians wages. There are a lot of very ca= pable 14 year old technicians out there that don’t have to pay any bi= lls so the price is in the toilet.

Rick Gerard

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