From: "Steve Oakley" Received: from mout.perfora.net ([74.208.4.196] verified) by media-motion.tv (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2.10) with ESMTP id 5541926 for AE-List@media-motion.tv; Wed, 06 Aug 2014 02:37:50 +0200 Received: from [10.1.1.102] (75-135-165-0.dhcp.stpt.wi.charter.com [75.135.165.0]) by mrelay.perfora.net (node=mreueus002) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0MgdbV-1X2vFb0cVz-00O1Io; Wed, 06 Aug 2014 02:37:49 +0200 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_B636110C-03D1-4F0D-BFB4-8A45FAD3EEC8" Message-Id: <80BE47CE-6124-44DD-BEB8-1EDCB0CEDAA1@practicalillusions.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.0 \(1971.5\)) Subject: Re: [AE] Use of 4K Cameras Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2014 19:37:46 -0500 References: To: After Effects Mail List In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1971.5) X-Provags-ID: V02:K0:31MEVoSu7yWVW3v7LRycTuaMgKb2cdAX71cHb7vW7oe HuYNLfJtlm7E/OUAwYCN4tmHLRTdt1rye6E2b/B5tfRegE/7cT ots7T4D7yDWzficCfN7JvIcNXdU+zQY3Ze1fviXQbh92cHCnVi fEqtE0yyPKgpGbPsYm3BQ6WfWctHhs8K5ZsFIFIcO1edSRrIYe c2oFJbxyA3eHp3R4zid5EBXuxQRwekf/q/BLRGXpkWd/FY6Lfq a/TepjmqLu3277a1suRVi1ZdqEl4/wvy45oMHSsBqU81BzVF2C ESBmO0l5da74sML+Dwu86j16ijMNZbd8y5Tu22JqIBRk4AiRKm sxtDBBZbaz7dMf8xCGI68CnMAynavfIWkeWLC8oq72jNJuJcN1 /+JkiPSyGAK/Bp0wQ+0+M490gwIvC319aM= X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1; --Apple-Mail=_B636110C-03D1-4F0D-BFB4-8A45FAD3EEC8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 and the problem with theory vs reality is reality. having seen 4K many = times ( shoot, edit, project all 4K ) there is a difference that you can = perceive even under less than ideal viewing conditions. until you get to = see good 4K I=E2=80=99d suggest holding off a bit on judgement as to if = its worth it or not. 10bit color space is also a big deal which is part = of the up coming standard for 4K. as for getting a camera - are you making money as a shooter ? are your = clients asking for 4K ? or do you think you can keep them by pushing it = if you have a 4K camera ? and do they expect a RED / Alexa / C500 or = will anything do ? S > On Aug 5, 2014, at 7:23 PM, Nathan Shipley = wrote: >=20 > To Tony's comment about the actual necessity of 4K as a delivery = format, "I sometimes feel like HD on a relatively large monitor is = almost too much fidelity for most average size rooms=E2=80=A6", it's a = good time to revisit Stu's blog post about 4K TVs in the home from = January of 2013: >=20 > http://prolost.com/blog/2013/1/22/4k-in-the-home.html >=20 > The chart basically shows that at a close 6' viewing distance, one = would need something like a 100" TV to see the full benefit of 4K over = regular 1080 content. Which is a massive TV. The article nicely and = succinctly explains why good black levels and contrast ratio are more = important than actual resolution when it comes to perceived display = resolution. He notes that 4K makes sense "if you=E2=80=99ve got a = projector, a huge screen, a close seating distance, and perfect = eyesight." It's a good blog post to have in your back pocket when = people start talking about this stuff or a friend is buying a TV. >=20 > Will 4K become a "thing" as a delivery format anyway? Maybe. = Probably? It'll probably compressed to hell while render times will = quadruple and storage requirements will go up. >=20 > People's points about the benefits of it as an acquisition format with = 1080 delivery are solid, though -- camera tests I've watched of the 4K = Blackmagic camera downresed to 1080 versus other cameras capturing = native 1080 are impressive. There is detail and sharpness for days. >=20 > Regardless, Stu's post and the included chart is worth a look. Check = it out. > - Nathan >=20 >=20 > On Tue, Aug 5, 2014 at 6:46 PM, Chris Zwar = wrote: > There's a bit of 4K stuff over at the ProVideo Coalition, including a = roundtable and a new FAQ: >=20 > = http://provideocoalition.com/pvcexclusive/story/your-4k-questions-answered= >=20 > = http://provideocoalition.com/pvcexclusive/story/to-4k-or-not-to-4k-a-pvc-r= oundtable-discussion >=20 > Considering that most Hollywood films aren't even made at 4K I don't = see a flood of compelling native 4K content coming anytime soon. >=20 >=20 > -Chris >=20 > On 06/08/2014, at 5:47 AM, Mr. Eric D. Kirk = wrote: >=20 >> Any thoughts out there on moving to 4K cameras? I've been studying = up on the Black Magic and hearing also about the GH4. Maybe it's just = me but is a DSLR type camera a logical transition from the more = customary video camera? I presume this is all no problem for using in = after effects. >> =20 >> Appreciate the feedback. >> =20 >> Eric >>=20 >> --=20 >> Eric D. Kirk | Kirk Productions >> Hidden in the Woods | VFX >> The Night Visitor | VFX >> 443.206.1347 >> www.kirkproductions.com >> kirkproductions@gmail.com >> IMDB: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm3351363/ >> =20 >=20 >=20 --Apple-Mail=_B636110C-03D1-4F0D-BFB4-8A45FAD3EEC8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 and = the problem with theory vs reality is reality. having seen 4K many times = ( shoot, edit, project all 4K ) there is a difference that you can = perceive even under less than ideal viewing conditions. until you get to = see good 4K I=E2=80=99d suggest holding off a bit on judgement as to if = its worth it or not. 10bit color space is also a big deal which is part = of the up coming standard for 4K.

as for getting a = camera - are you making money as a shooter ? are your clients asking for = 4K ? or do you think you can keep them by pushing it if you have a 4K = camera ? and do they expect a RED / Alexa / C500 or will anything do = ?

S


On Aug 5, 2014, at 7:23 PM, Nathan Shipley <AE-List@media-motion.tv> = wrote:

To Tony's comment about the actual necessity of 4K as a = delivery format, "I sometimes feel like HD on a relatively large monitor = is almost too much fidelity for most average size rooms=E2=80=A6", it's = a good time to revisit Stu's blog post about 4K TVs in the home from = January of 2013:

http://prol= ost.com/blog/2013/1/22/4k-in-the-home.html

The = chart basically shows that at a close 6' viewing distance, one would = need something like a 100" TV to see the full benefit of 4K over regular = 1080 content.  Which is a massive TV.  The article nicely and = succinctly explains why good black levels and contrast ratio are more = important than actual resolution when it comes to perceived display = resolution.  He notes that 4K makes sense "if you=E2=80=99ve got a = projector, a huge screen, a close seating distance, and perfect = eyesight."  It's a good blog post to have in your back pocket when = people start talking about this stuff or a friend is buying a TV.

Will 4K become a "thing" as a delivery format = anyway?   Maybe.  Probably?  It'll probably compressed to = hell while render times will quadruple and storage requirements will go = up.

People's points about the benefits of it as an = acquisition format with 1080 delivery are solid, though -- camera tests = I've watched of the 4K Blackmagic camera downresed to 1080 versus other = cameras capturing native 1080 are impressive.  There is detail and = sharpness for days.

Regardless, Stu's post and the included chart is = worth a look.  Check it out.
 - = Nathan


On Tue, Aug 5, 2014 at 6:46 PM, Chris Zwar <AE-List@media-motion.tv> wrote:
There's a bit of 4K stuff over at the = ProVideo Coalition, including a roundtable and a new FAQ:



Considering that most Hollywood films aren't even = made at 4K I don't see a flood of compelling native 4K content coming = anytime soon.


-Chris

On 06/08/2014, at 5:47 AM, Mr. Eric D. Kirk <AE-List@media-motion.tv> = wrote:

Any = thoughts out there on moving to 4K cameras?  I've been studying up = on the Black Magic and hearing also about the GH4.  Maybe it's just = me but is a DSLR type camera a logical transition from the more = customary video camera?  I presume this is all no problem for using = in after effects.
 
Appreciate the = feedback.
 
Eric

-- =
Eric D. Kirk | Kirk = Productions
Hidden in the Woods | = VFX
The Night Visitor | VFX
 



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