From: "Mr. Eric D. Kirk" Received: from mail-ie0-f177.google.com ([209.85.223.177] verified) by media-motion.tv (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2.10) with ESMTP-TLS id 5541929 for AE-List@media-motion.tv; Wed, 06 Aug 2014 02:46:17 +0200 Received: by mail-ie0-f177.google.com with SMTP id at20so1983972iec.22 for ; Tue, 05 Aug 2014 17:46:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=WnSYdNCIbRBDst6rkpOHq39NtsiMZraKpPp94Hw4LCY=; b=LF/0m8STL7b6N+g8JUEwSNlnDrzF8oOUdoiwKQK2iwDyDMLY7lZEi1HorpjB4oZxiq hdhkDhzXN1aK/JpB60MluvJXUmiOI541L+XM0xhzWomPWBQ0mLxFVKNosN2cykyKLB0D NV7SA+saSZOf8EmoWsUUJ+/EkdhJ93Zu20z2jJnBC3Wi6Drl4tPwOF0dlYgcFGAGx4hg a1Rbph5RYHZHRNIQZl9QdkZYXukXGGuaH1AqFvFN2xq881PFu4SV7H+lH8Ntbqrsq0rV bA9grn8JBO/xbHXkXGdim+McMorYIWGxddb09pvaRyxX/CYHiwrj4vM/1to42Cw30G4e Ffxg== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.42.25.141 with SMTP id a13mr10221990icc.37.1407285976677; Tue, 05 Aug 2014 17:46:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.50.56.50 with HTTP; Tue, 5 Aug 2014 17:46:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.50.56.50 with HTTP; Tue, 5 Aug 2014 17:46:16 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2014 20:46:16 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [AE] Use of 4K Cameras To: After Effects Mail List Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=20cf3043515abcc4c904ffeb4ccf --20cf3043515abcc4c904ffeb4ccf Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Steve, For me, my question is purely about keeping up with current technology and whether it's a needed upgrade. Everything I've heard tells me....perhaps yes but not necessary in near term. No clients asking for it and otherwise no demand. Eric On Aug 5, 2014 8:39 PM, "Steve Oakley" wrote: > and the problem with theory vs reality is reality. having seen 4K many > times ( shoot, edit, project all 4K ) there is a difference that you can > perceive even under less than ideal viewing conditions. until you get to > see good 4K I=E2=80=99d suggest holding off a bit on judgement as to if i= ts worth > it or not. 10bit color space is also a big deal which is part of the up > coming standard for 4K. > > as for getting a camera - are you making money as a shooter ? are your > clients asking for 4K ? or do you think you can keep them by pushing it i= f > you have a 4K camera ? and do they expect a RED / Alexa / C500 or will > anything do ? > > S > > > On Aug 5, 2014, at 7:23 PM, Nathan Shipley > wrote: > > To Tony's comment about the actual necessity of 4K as a delivery format, > "I sometimes feel like HD on a relatively large monitor is almost too muc= h > fidelity for most average size rooms=E2=80=A6", it's a good time to revis= it Stu's > blog post about 4K TVs in the home from January of 2013: > > http://prolost.com/blog/2013/1/22/4k-in-the-home.html > > The chart basically shows that at a close 6' viewing distance, one would > need something like a 100" TV to see the full benefit of 4K over regular > 1080 content. Which is a massive TV. The article nicely and succinctly > explains why good black levels and contrast ratio are more important than > actual resolution when it comes to perceived display resolution. He note= s > that 4K makes sense "if you=E2=80=99ve got a projector, a huge screen, a = close > seating distance, and perfect eyesight." It's a good blog post to have i= n > your back pocket when people start talking about this stuff or a friend i= s > buying a TV. > > Will 4K become a "thing" as a delivery format anyway? Maybe. Probably? > It'll probably compressed to hell while render times will quadruple and > storage requirements will go up. > > People's points about the benefits of it as an acquisition format with > 1080 delivery are solid, though -- camera tests I've watched of the 4K > Blackmagic camera downresed to 1080 versus other cameras capturing native > 1080 are impressive. There is detail and sharpness for days. > > Regardless, Stu's post and the included chart is worth a look. Check it > out. > - Nathan > > > On Tue, Aug 5, 2014 at 6:46 PM, Chris Zwar > wrote: > >> There's a bit of 4K stuff over at the ProVideo Coalition, including a >> roundtable and a new FAQ: >> >> http://provideocoalition.com/pvcexclusive/story/your-4k-questions-answer= ed >> >> >> http://provideocoalition.com/pvcexclusive/story/to-4k-or-not-to-4k-a-pvc= -roundtable-discussion >> >> Considering that most Hollywood films aren't even made at 4K I don't see >> a flood of compelling native 4K content coming anytime soon. >> >> >> -Chris >> >> On 06/08/2014, at 5:47 AM, Mr. Eric D. Kirk >> wrote: >> >> Any thoughts out there on moving to 4K cameras? I've been studying up o= n >> the Black Magic and hearing also about the GH4. Maybe it's just me but = is >> a DSLR type camera a logical transition from the more customary video >> camera? I presume this is all no problem for using in after effects. >> >> Appreciate the feedback. >> >> Eric >> >> -- >> *Eric D. Kirk | **Kirk Productions* >> *Hidden in the Woods | VFX* >> *The Night Visitor | VFX* >> *443.206.1347 <443.206.1347>* >> >> *www.kirkproductions.com >> kirkproductions@gmail.com * >> *IMDB: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm3351363/ >> * >> >> >> >> > > --20cf3043515abcc4c904ffeb4ccf Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Steve,

For me, my question is purely about keeping up with current = technology and whether it's a needed upgrade.=C2=A0 Everything I've= heard tells me....perhaps yes but not necessary in near term.

No clients asking for it and otherwise no demand.

Eric

On Aug 5, 2014 8:39 PM, "Steve Oakley"= <AE-List@media-motion.tv= > wrote:
and the problem with theory vs reality = is reality. having seen 4K many times ( shoot, edit, project all 4K ) there= is a difference that you can perceive even under less than ideal viewing c= onditions. until you get to see good 4K I=E2=80=99d suggest holding off a b= it on judgement as to if its worth it or not. 10bit color space is also a b= ig deal which is part of the up coming standard for 4K.

as for getting a camera - are you making money as a shooter = ? are your clients asking for 4K ? or do you think you can keep them by pus= hing it if you have a 4K camera ? and do they expect a RED / Alexa / C500 o= r will anything do ?

S


On Aug 5, 2014, at 7:23 PM, Nathan Shipley <AE-List@media-motion.tv> = wrote:

To Tony's comment about the actual neces= sity of 4K as a delivery format, "I sometimes feel like HD on a relati= vely large monitor is almost too much fidelity for most average size rooms= =E2=80=A6", it's a good time to revisit Stu's blog post about = 4K TVs in the home from January of 2013:

http://prolost.com/blog/2013/1/22/4k-in-the-home.ht= ml

The chart basically shows that at a close 6&#= 39; viewing distance, one would need something like a 100" TV to see t= he full benefit of 4K over regular 1080 content. =C2=A0Which is a massive T= V. =C2=A0The article nicely and succinctly explains why good black levels a= nd contrast ratio are more important than actual resolution when it comes t= o perceived display resolution. =C2=A0He notes that 4K makes sense "if= you=E2=80=99ve got a projector, a huge screen, a close seating distance, a= nd perfect eyesight." =C2=A0It's a good blog post to have in your = back pocket when people start talking about this stuff or a friend is buyin= g a TV.

Will 4K become a "thing" as a delivery format= anyway? =C2=A0 Maybe. =C2=A0Probably? =C2=A0It'll probably compressed = to hell while render times will quadruple and storage requirements will go = up.

People's points about the benefits of it as an acquisiti= on format with 1080 delivery are solid, though -- camera tests I've wat= ched of the 4K Blackmagic camera downresed to 1080 versus other cameras cap= turing native 1080 are impressive. =C2=A0There is detail and sharpness for = days.

Regardless, Stu's post and the included chart is wo= rth a look. =C2=A0Check it out.
=C2=A0- Nathan


On Tue, Aug 5, 2= 014 at 6:46 PM, Chris Zwar <AE-List@media-motion.tv> w= rote:
There= 9;s a bit of 4K stuff over at the ProVideo Coalition, including a roundtabl= e and a new FAQ:


http://provideocoalition.= com/pvcexclusive/story/to-4k-or-not-to-4k-a-pvc-roundtable-discussion

Considering that most Hollywood films aren't even m= ade at 4K I don't see a flood of compelling native 4K content coming an= ytime soon.


-Chris

On 06/08/2014, at 5:47 AM, Mr. Eric D. Kirk <AE-List@media-motion.= tv> wrote:

= Any thoughts out there on moving to 4K cameras?=C2=A0 I've been studyin= g up on the Black Magic and hearing also about the GH4.=C2=A0 Maybe it'= s just me but is a DSLR type camera a logical transition from the more cust= omary video camera?=C2=A0 I presume this is all no problem for using in aft= er effects.
=C2=A0
Appreciate the feedback.
=C2=A0
E= ric

--
Eric D. Kirk= |=C2=A0Kirk Productions
Hidden in the Woods | VFX<= /b>
The Night Visitor | VFX
<= div>www.ki= rkproductions.com
kirkproducti= ons@gmail.com
=C2=A0



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