From: "Teddy Gage" Received: from mail-yh0-f43.google.com ([209.85.213.43] verified) by media-motion.tv (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2.10) with ESMTP-TLS id 5562584 for AE-List@media-motion.tv; Mon, 01 Sep 2014 19:26:22 +0200 Received: by mail-yh0-f43.google.com with SMTP id f73so3573718yha.2 for ; Mon, 01 Sep 2014 10:26:22 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-type; bh=rap1ujg4AJQOwGtxfBtfpRWfgBz0EwVPWb5qfGEq1j0=; b=Nw8DUKC7MZ/iRQElUDNGIozvSRakHgAIGnI21RAMMAxn22RNtXBe4Sv2A0JNwLc0q+ sWfbBCkX8NTTzVxx7cbA8/ppyp0c1eOUMQ4MS/G3m/H8cEVEir4nXuRwnIxYUHhda6Kc YzOCT4yApwBEKVGlUIcbSmXQNIm3SopiAxVKIU/q3u/TdYGVue3nk5UXfa5L0pJs8PZF ASGeG+4nVrJSyG4nGcVWNiJqixesJNUb7txgtf1WeDGzU/zvM4vFZTmqCLs/uFmvsdhm wdPnqBRoyEMI2QFIfFGFt/1ZTDCJaOBRrUonBtcsdr+b6SFpPp+mM2iw/OrnJGBOBUap trGw== X-Received: by 10.236.136.168 with SMTP id w28mr3576613yhi.132.1409592382080; Mon, 01 Sep 2014 10:26:22 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.170.125.195 with HTTP; Mon, 1 Sep 2014 10:25:42 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2014 13:25:42 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [AE] H264 Encoding and grain issues and Basic Encoding Survey To: After Effects Mail List Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=20cf303ddb98364f2a0502044dba --20cf303ddb98364f2a0502044dba Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 How does 175 kbit 8bit DNxHD (free codec from avid site) look? Or do you have a mac system you could use to convert directly from lossless to prores 422 or 4444? Prores may be your only option. If the end result is bound for web anyway, you are probably out of luck. Youtube or even vimeo are going to crush the grain sharpness quality on their end no matter what you upload. I have struggled with this in the past. High quality grain just does not compress very well - it's the first victim of compression. Or you could simply lower your standards... On Mon, Sep 1, 2014 at 11:32 AM, Roei Tzoref wrote: > Rendernyc- tried and no dice. grain looks blocky > > Robert - about x264 encoder is there a recommended workflow on how to use > it ? > > about the handbrake I just installed it today and experimented. > had good results with RF=20 but the file size was very large. > and with regular bitrate 10000 had the same blocky grain results. > > if you want to experiment > here's a HD1080 5sec grain video (quicktime > movie compressed photojpeg 100%) > > its a grain adjustment layer on 50% gray layer. > cant seem to get it crispy or any where near it with AME encoding > if you willing and able - see if you can get it crispy on mp4 container. > > > > > On Mon, Sep 1, 2014 at 4:52 PM, Robert Kjettrup > wrote: > >> or try sending the highquality QT (i mostly use DNxHD or ProRes) through >> the x264 encoder that has an Constant Quality mode that i find keeps the >> grain much better than any mode of the MainConcept h264 in AME. >> An easy to use GUI for x264 is the free Handbrake app, that is available >> for both Win and Mac. >> >> Robert >> >> >> >> 2014-09-01 15:32 GMT+02:00 Rendernyc : >> >> Trying switching to 1 pass VBR in AME and see if it looks better >>> >>> On Sep 1, 2014, at 9:17 AM, "Roei Tzoref" >>> wrote: >>> >>> hey guys >>> >>> I have been having problems achieving a decent crispy video from my AE >>> composition >>> it is a graphic pencil drawing come to life with a lot of sharp details >>> and grain too. >>> >>> I have tried rendering from AE via AME with the presets, >>> or even manually adjusting with VBR ,2PASS 10,12 >>> and I cant get the grain and the fine details >>> I see in the high quality large file version. >>> >>> I have tried rendering a high quality version (photo jpeg 100% from AE) >>> and that I compressed >>> in sorenson squeeze with multipass and still the grain is not as sharp >>> as it should be. >>> >>> so I would like to sort this mess and while I am at - reinforce my >>> render decisions on Lossless video as well. >>> >>> would like to have a survey among you guys. >>> >>> *my questions are:* >>> *1. what is your export option for lossless high quality video for >>> further editing purposes?* >>> *streaming quality is not important. * >>> my answer is: >>> Quicktime animation for 8bit >>> Png sequence for 16bit >>> Render through AE >>> >>> *2. **what is your export option** for high quality viewing purposes HD >>> video? * >>> *say for showing in a presentation or exhibition. * >>> *file size doesnt have to be small and **streaming quality is >>> important.* >>> my answer is: >>> H264 with very high bitrate >>> Render through AME >>> >>> *3. **what is your export option** for sending for client video that >>> maintains* >>> *high quality (grain especially) or for uploading for youtube/Vimeo* >>> *streaming quality **and low file size are** important* >>> my answer is: >>> H264: Render through AME >>> HD720 2Pass VBR 6,8 >>> HD1080 2Pass VBR 10,12 >>> or Render through Sorenson squeeze multipass (which take forever) >>> >>> Thanks >>> >>> >>> >>> >> > -- _____________________________ VFX & Motion Graphic Artist teddygage dot com --20cf303ddb98364f2a0502044dba Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
How does 175 kbit 8bit DNxHD (free codec from avid site) l= ook? Or do you have a mac system you could use to convert directly from los= sless to prores 422 or 4444? Prores may be your only option. If the end res= ult is bound for web anyway, you are probably out of luck. Youtube or even = vimeo are going to crush the grain sharpness quality on their end no matter= what you upload. I have struggled with this in the past. High quality grai= n just does not compress very well - it's the first victim of compressi= on.

Or you could simply lower your standards...


On Mon, Sep 1, 201= 4 at 11:32 AM, Roei Tzoref <AE-List@media-motion.tv> w= rote:
Rendernyc- tried = and no dice. grain looks blocky

Robert - about x2= 64 encoder is there a recommended=C2=A0workflow on how to use it ?

about the handbrake I just installed it today and experimented.
had good results with RF=3D20 but the file size was very large.
<= div>and with regular bitrate 10000 had the same blocky grain results.
=

if you want to experiment
here's a HD1080 5sec grain video= (quicktime movie compressed photojpeg 100%)

its a grain adjustment layer on 50% gray layer.
cant seem to get it crispy or any where near it with AME encoding
<= div>if you willing and able - see if you can get it crispy on mp4 container= .




On Mo= n, Sep 1, 2014 at 4:52 PM, Robert Kjettrup <AE-List@media-motion.tv<= /a>> wrote:
or try sending the highqual= ity QT (i mostly use DNxHD or ProRes) through the x264 encoder that has an = Constant Quality mode that i find keeps the grain much better than any mode= of the MainConcept h264 in AME.
An easy to use GUI for x264 is the free Handbrake app, that is available fo= r both Win and Mac.

Robert



20= 14-09-01 15:32 GMT+02:00 Rendernyc <AE-List@media-motion.tv><= /span>:

Trying switching to 1= pass VBR in AME and see if it looks better

On Sep 1, 2014, at 9:17 AM, "Roei Tzoref" <AE-List@media-motion.tv> w= rote:

hey guys=

I have been having problems achieving a decent crispy v= ideo from my AE composition
it is a graphic pencil drawing come t= o life =C2=A0with a lot of sharp details and grain too.

I have tried rendering from AE via AME with the presets= ,
or even manually adjusting with VBR ,2PASS 10,12=C2=A0
and I cant get the grain and the fine details
I see in the high= quality large file version.

I have tried rendering a high quality version (photo jp= eg 100% from AE) and that I compressed
in sorenson squeeze with m= ultipass and still the grain is not as sharp as it should be.

so I would like to sort this mess and while I am at - =C2=A0= reinforce my render decisions on Lossless video as well.

would like to have a survey among you guys.

my questions are:
1. what is your export option fo= r lossless high quality video for further editing purposes?
=
streaming quality is not important.=C2=A0
my answer is:
Quicktime animation for 8bit
= Png sequence for 16bit
Render through AE

2.=C2=A0<= /b>what is your export option=C2=A0for high quality viewing purpo= ses HD video?=C2=A0
say for showing in a presentation or exhibition.=C2=A0
file size doesnt have to be small and=C2=A0streaming quality is= important.
my answer is:=
H264 with very high bitrate=C2=A0
Render through AME

3.=C2=A0what is y= our export option=C2=A0for sending for client video that maintains
high quality (grain=C2=A0especially) or for uploading for youtube/V= imeo
streaming quality=C2=A0and low file size = are=C2=A0important
= my answer is:
H264:=C2=A0Render through AME
HD720 2P= ass VBR 6,8=C2=A0
HD1080 2Pass VBR= 10,12
or Render through Sorenson squeeze multi= pass (which take forever)

Thanks








--
=
_____________________________=
VFX & Motion Graphic Artist
teddygage dot com
--20cf303ddb98364f2a0502044dba--