From: "Roei Tzoref" Received: from mail-lb0-f179.google.com ([209.85.217.179] verified) by media-motion.tv (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2.10) with ESMTP-TLS id 5562623 for AE-List@media-motion.tv; Mon, 01 Sep 2014 20:31:08 +0200 Received: by mail-lb0-f179.google.com with SMTP id l4so6207741lbv.24 for ; Mon, 01 Sep 2014 11:31:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=JQUafXTz4orG9H942KezoEZAPh+kx2DYJ2Zh7Bcu8gg=; b=DMT5mZXqymeiJ5OSIlYrsUXzlV9K8T5k4N2rXaWm7yh/sHsFSYRB0RCi1DRzgCWH2Z 0qNHXjQeWGzU5cuDTedUfNGzmcU6ZbJHTsGsYYppqnEpswAAvzfHdvFvLB5Y0fXeVnwP K02mSeFb0aZ7hk+cnFD0Ce9YzW4NnVW2EgTVj76OfoBxPNA2ApX7WXwQbzn9p3hiNz6z 99Ve91ltZEbVBGcZf2/rbo9NyAWGJw7rRPPx+OXDLFf2h7c5hlJs0XqYzZsK20K7ZpZA eYYRFiCUoNIzBD32tgvMfYObYeKBZ3riq9f/So53HYp3ETy17hT9HrDlmI9Jai9hgtDS rVCA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.112.28.8 with SMTP id x8mr3827075lbg.104.1409596269635; Mon, 01 Sep 2014 11:31:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.112.160.197 with HTTP; Mon, 1 Sep 2014 11:31:09 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2014 21:31:09 +0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [AE] H264 Encoding and grain issues and Basic Encoding Survey To: After Effects Mail List Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11340428edad0f05020534de --001a11340428edad0f05020534de Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 o.k Teddy - you are also referring to my second question - a high quality version for preview but file size not that small. so I take it you recommend prores 422 or 444 or 175 bit dnxhd. is that compatible on most computers? say I want to play the video in an exhibition and not have problems with preview or streaming do you recommend this compressor? On Mon, Sep 1, 2014 at 8:25 PM, Teddy Gage wrote: > How does 175 kbit 8bit DNxHD (free codec from avid site) look? Or do you > have a mac system you could use to convert directly from lossless to prores > 422 or 4444? Prores may be your only option. If the end result is bound for > web anyway, you are probably out of luck. Youtube or even vimeo are going > to crush the grain sharpness quality on their end no matter what you > upload. I have struggled with this in the past. High quality grain just > does not compress very well - it's the first victim of compression. > > Or you could simply lower your standards... > > > On Mon, Sep 1, 2014 at 11:32 AM, Roei Tzoref > wrote: > >> Rendernyc- tried and no dice. grain looks blocky >> >> Robert - about x264 encoder is there a recommended workflow on how to use >> it ? >> >> about the handbrake I just installed it today and experimented. >> had good results with RF=20 but the file size was very large. >> and with regular bitrate 10000 had the same blocky grain results. >> >> if you want to experiment >> here's a HD1080 5sec grain video (quicktime >> movie compressed photojpeg 100%) >> >> its a grain adjustment layer on 50% gray layer. >> cant seem to get it crispy or any where near it with AME encoding >> if you willing and able - see if you can get it crispy on mp4 container. >> >> >> >> >> On Mon, Sep 1, 2014 at 4:52 PM, Robert Kjettrup >> wrote: >> >>> or try sending the highquality QT (i mostly use DNxHD or ProRes) through >>> the x264 encoder that has an Constant Quality mode that i find keeps the >>> grain much better than any mode of the MainConcept h264 in AME. >>> An easy to use GUI for x264 is the free Handbrake app, that is available >>> for both Win and Mac. >>> >>> Robert >>> >>> >>> >>> 2014-09-01 15:32 GMT+02:00 Rendernyc : >>> >>> Trying switching to 1 pass VBR in AME and see if it looks better >>>> >>>> On Sep 1, 2014, at 9:17 AM, "Roei Tzoref" >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> hey guys >>>> >>>> I have been having problems achieving a decent crispy video from my AE >>>> composition >>>> it is a graphic pencil drawing come to life with a lot of sharp >>>> details and grain too. >>>> >>>> I have tried rendering from AE via AME with the presets, >>>> or even manually adjusting with VBR ,2PASS 10,12 >>>> and I cant get the grain and the fine details >>>> I see in the high quality large file version. >>>> >>>> I have tried rendering a high quality version (photo jpeg 100% from AE) >>>> and that I compressed >>>> in sorenson squeeze with multipass and still the grain is not as sharp >>>> as it should be. >>>> >>>> so I would like to sort this mess and while I am at - reinforce my >>>> render decisions on Lossless video as well. >>>> >>>> would like to have a survey among you guys. >>>> >>>> *my questions are:* >>>> *1. what is your export option for lossless high quality video for >>>> further editing purposes?* >>>> *streaming quality is not important. * >>>> my answer is: >>>> Quicktime animation for 8bit >>>> Png sequence for 16bit >>>> Render through AE >>>> >>>> *2. **what is your export option** for high quality viewing purposes >>>> HD video? * >>>> *say for showing in a presentation or exhibition. * >>>> *file size doesnt have to be small and **streaming quality is >>>> important.* >>>> my answer is: >>>> H264 with very high bitrate >>>> Render through AME >>>> >>>> *3. **what is your export option** for sending for client video that >>>> maintains* >>>> *high quality (grain especially) or for uploading for youtube/Vimeo* >>>> *streaming quality **and low file size are** important* >>>> my answer is: >>>> H264: Render through AME >>>> HD720 2Pass VBR 6,8 >>>> HD1080 2Pass VBR 10,12 >>>> or Render through Sorenson squeeze multipass (which take forever) >>>> >>>> Thanks >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> > > > -- > _____________________________ > VFX & Motion Graphic Artist > teddygage dot com > --001a11340428edad0f05020534de Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
o.k Teddy - you are also referring to my second question -= a high quality version for preview but file size not that small.
so I = take it you recommend prores 422 or 444 or 175 bit dnxhd. is that compatibl= e on most computers? say I want to play the video
in an exhibition and not have problems with preview or streaming do yo= u recommend this compressor?







On Mon, Sep 1, 2014 at 8:25 PM, Teddy Gage <AE-List@media-motion.tv> wrote:
How does 175 kbit 8bit DNxHD (free codec from avid site) l= ook? Or do you have a mac system you could use to convert directly from los= sless to prores 422 or 4444? Prores may be your only option. If the end res= ult is bound for web anyway, you are probably out of luck. Youtube or even = vimeo are going to crush the grain sharpness quality on their end no matter= what you upload. I have struggled with this in the past. High quality grai= n just does not compress very well - it's the first victim of compressi= on.

Or you could simply lower your standards...


On Mon, Sep 1, 2014 at 11:32 AM, Roei Tzoref <AE-List@media-mot= ion.tv> wrote:
Rendernyc- tried = and no dice. grain looks blocky

Robert - about x2= 64 encoder is there a recommended=C2=A0workflow on how to use it ?

about the handbrake I just installed it today and experimented.
had good results with RF=3D20 but the file size was very large.
<= div>and with regular bitrate 10000 had the same blocky grain results.
=

if you want to experiment
here's a HD1080 5sec grain video= (quicktime movie compressed photojpeg 100%)

its a grain adjustment layer on 50% gray layer.
cant seem to get it crispy or any where near it with AME encoding
<= div>if you willing and able - see if you can get it crispy on mp4 container= .




On Mon, Sep 1, 2014 at 4:52 PM, Robe= rt Kjettrup <AE-List@media-motion.tv> wrote:
or try sending the highqual= ity QT (i mostly use DNxHD or ProRes) through the x264 encoder that has an = Constant Quality mode that i find keeps the grain much better than any mode= of the MainConcept h264 in AME.
An easy to use GUI for x264 is the free Handbrake app, that is available fo= r both Win and Mac.

Robert



20= 14-09-01 15:32 GMT+02:00 Rendernyc <AE-List@media-motion.tv><= /span>:

Trying switching to 1= pass VBR in AME and see if it looks better

On Sep 1, 2014, at 9:17 AM, "Roei Tzoref" <AE-List@media-motion.tv> w= rote:

hey guys=

I have been having problems achieving a decent crispy v= ideo from my AE composition
it is a graphic pencil drawing come t= o life =C2=A0with a lot of sharp details and grain too.

I have tried rendering from AE via AME with the presets= ,
or even manually adjusting with VBR ,2PASS 10,12=C2=A0
and I cant get the grain and the fine details
I see in the high= quality large file version.

I have tried rendering a high quality version (photo jp= eg 100% from AE) and that I compressed
in sorenson squeeze with m= ultipass and still the grain is not as sharp as it should be.

so I would like to sort this mess and while I am at - =C2=A0= reinforce my render decisions on Lossless video as well.

would like to have a survey among you guys.

my questions are:
1. what is your export option fo= r lossless high quality video for further editing purposes?
=
streaming quality is not important.=C2=A0
my answer is:
Quicktime animation for 8bit
= Png sequence for 16bit
Render through AE

2.=C2=A0<= /b>what is your export option=C2=A0for high quality viewing purpo= ses HD video?=C2=A0
say for showing in a presentation or exhibition.=C2=A0
file size doesnt have to be small and=C2=A0streaming quality is= important.
my answer is:=
H264 with very high bitrate=C2=A0
Render through AME

3.=C2=A0what is y= our export option=C2=A0for sending for client video that maintains
high quality (grain=C2=A0especially) or for uploading for youtube/V= imeo
streaming quality=C2=A0and low file size = are=C2=A0important
= my answer is:
H264:=C2=A0Render through AME
HD720 2P= ass VBR 6,8=C2=A0
HD1080 2Pass VBR= 10,12
or Render through Sorenson squeeze multi= pass (which take forever)

Thanks








<= /div>--
_____________________________
VFX & Motion Graphic Artist
teddygage dot com
--001a11340428edad0f05020534de--