If you want to keep the grain structure you will have to accept bigger filesizes, thats just how it works... many small changing details every frame like grain and noise is just hard for an encoder.

The good thing about Constant Quality settings are that you can predict how it will look... but not how much the filesize will be. On the other end then VBR is more predictive in filesize, but not in quality, and CBR even more predictive in filesize and somewhat also in quality.

if you want to upload to any web service in the end, then it almost certainly will be encoded once more and here it is hard to gurantee the grain will survive. It kinda the same with broadcast, where the endresult mostly is re-encoded several times and in too low a bitrate so everything will look mushed up on the final delivery screen :-(

Robert

2014-09-01 17:32 GMT+02:00 Roei Tzoref <AE-List@media-motion.tv>:

Rendernyc- tried and no dice. grain looks blocky

Robert - about x264 encoder is there a recommended workflow on how to use it ?

about the handbrake I just installed it today and experimented.

had good results with RF=20 but the file size was very large.

and with regular bitrate 10000 had the same blocky grain results.

if you want to experiment

here's a HD1080 5sec grain video (quicktime movie compressed photojpeg 100%)

its a grain adjustment layer on 50% gray layer.

cant seem to get it crispy or any where near it with AME encoding

if you willing and able - see if you can get it crispy on mp4 container.

On Mon, Sep 1, 2014 at 4:52 PM, Robert Kjettrup <AE-List@media-motion.tv> wrote:

or try sending the highquality QT (i mostly use DNxHD or ProRes) through the x264 encoder that has an Constant Quality mode that i find keeps the grain much better than any mode of the MainConcept h264 in AME.

An easy to use GUI for x264 is the free Handbrake app, that is available for both Win and Mac.

Robert

2014-09-01 15:32 GMT+02:00 Rendernyc <AE-List@media-motion.tv>:

Trying switching to 1 pass VBR in AME and see if it looks better

On Sep 1, 2014, at 9:17 AM, "Roei Tzoref" <AE-List@media-motion.tv> wrote:

hey guys

I have been having problems achieving a decent crispy video from my AE composition

it is a graphic pencil drawing come to life  with a lot of sharp details and grain too.

I have tried rendering from AE via AME with the presets,

or even manually adjusting with VBR ,2PASS 10,12 

and I cant get the grain and the fine details

I see in the high quality large file version.

I have tried rendering a high quality version (photo jpeg 100% from AE) and that I compressed

in sorenson squeeze with multipass and still the grain is not as sharp as it should be.

so I would like to sort this mess and while I am at -  reinforce my render decisions on Lossless video as well.

would like to have a survey among you guys.

my questions are:

1. what is your export option for lossless high quality video for further editing purposes?

streaming quality is not important. 

my answer is:

Quicktime animation for 8bit

Png sequence for 16bit

Render through AE

2. what is your export option for high quality viewing purposes HD video? 

say for showing in a presentation or exhibition. 

file size doesnt have to be small and streaming quality is important.

my answer is:

H264 with very high bitrate 

Render through AME

3. what is your export option for sending for client video that maintains

high quality (grain especially) or for uploading for youtube/Vimeo

streaming quality and low file size are important

my answer is:

H264: Render through AME

HD720 2Pass VBR 6,8 

HD1080 2Pass VBR 10,12

or Render through Sorenson squeeze multipass (which take forever)

Thanks