From: "Roei Tzoref" Received: from mail-it0-f47.google.com ([209.85.214.47] verified) by media-motion.tv (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.1.0) with ESMTPS id 6319114 for AE-List@media-motion.tv; Sun, 17 Sep 2017 01:36:46 +0200 Received: by mail-it0-f47.google.com with SMTP id 6so5376365itl.1 for ; Sat, 16 Sep 2017 16:38:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=c5O/KwrNYKLxIodYEg3waO8awzfPWqsLMfW70OU5kKI=; b=LqDKMI7BdS0H/UkneCT0O3g7lvcCw88s1wbH5v3O+YMJIOzu8GnCn0u4w5M/L6cQLM ihLFhmwi4En/dZCT/bskophvn45gIBf+uOsBRxgX2YpvDwhyoTUcUIluE5FEf67QcEfM nNPTqqXchxjQqSdQshKi9kVn5y2v3rP32Ls/YJGtVLBbjEWRhECpRPv3Rsi0WKbt50JZ UpbrjkN1qeN9cFgEoEhYOfnr4gl9Ts0mBeUh+YQNeieVpCp4gBa6pE7LEy6zkvJ3segQ 06lq8AfPA7HqtexIhbMnnswI7u+AC5TQO6bI66UJV2pwfy7jjMn95R0jWG/ASjujTUFl K/AQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=c5O/KwrNYKLxIodYEg3waO8awzfPWqsLMfW70OU5kKI=; b=V7/vgKhWkOxVuyAhuiUgakjnSLDA7qiqnSR7SID/fY2WIX6mnzrtKKAkLKS5tAHINd CuGL8zz8amt4shlpBKQhoT81W8o4b7zQ3oOm2b9J4XUXpKPGjWn3xwkQHN1tVGHtd3kG MphaBaqLKI/QbhBnLFMxWCBBCSmDAo1Dgrh9OUBW+yryu2weOpyJPbAz+EHZQ4MzqnaT WfdnCnOSuVv55HRPYttvC0i+h43Yipu4BKrphKFXQhmwkBsGNZo6e3G4SUoQTIduI/5s fO/CVABj5jEjlAXx04nO+nyppLHghVGScib7z25Gm3bQtkrhn51eplvCIxKIh7M/ppb8 KDLg== X-Gm-Message-State: AHPjjUi09FfAmXJZtSFDFjBV2JS8RAMchGlCzn4UhUsTAOnMuXTy9kwd ICtWMNO4M+LG0U/vmTKmJJc1k8PvcGapD5PA4bs= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QBpS4rOdJpOHWsGjPuhglrjclghSvQBdTQpA3NHBFPRqY1MjuGg4IK3olxFJgfL5TwVg/5Zm4Gl+W3j8+5E+as= X-Received: by 10.36.55.138 with SMTP id r132mr12740376itr.122.1505605079167; Sat, 16 Sep 2017 16:37:59 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.2.48.83 with HTTP; Sat, 16 Sep 2017 16:37:18 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2017 02:37:18 +0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [AE] Wacom vs Mouse To: After Effects Mail List Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a1140ae52ea77b7055956ff3c" --001a1140ae52ea77b7055956ff3c Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks RK :) On Sun, Sep 17, 2017 at 2:17 AM, Robert Kjettrup wrote: > Hi Roei > > Yes, give it some time, a couple of weeks is normal before you start > feeling comfortable using it for everything, maybe try unplugging the mou= se > so you dont reach to it out of habit :-) > When i started using a wacom, 15+ years ago, it was because i started > feeling the carpal tunnel syndrome with using the mouse, so i forced myse= lf > to use the wacom for everything and i havn't had any issues since then. > > As Steve says, you can try out the mouse mode, i really dont like that > mode but i know some do, especially if you have multiple monitors. When i > started to use a Wacom i also went from a dual 4:3 monitor setup to a > widescreen single monitor setup, mostly because of the issue with a wacom > setup over such a large screen area. > There are some options on the wacom to toggle between multiple displays i= f > you focus mostly on one of the monitors, it requires a button press on th= e > tablet though. Also remember to try out the Precision Mode on the wacom, > that can be really useful at times when precision work is needed and you > dont want to zoom in. > > The double tab to double click is sometimes harder than it should be, > since some apps need you to keep the pen very still while doing that. Tha= ts > why i have set it as a default on the lower wacom button. After a while y= ou > will figure out what works for you :-) > > Another small tip if you are on Windows (i think i remember you are), tur= n > off "Use Windows Ink" under the Mapping tab in the Wacom Tablet Propertie= s, > that will save you some frustrations with the annoying rings that otherwi= se > will always show when you click around. Just remember to turn it off for > all Application settings you have setup for each Pen you have registered. > > Robert > > > > 2017-09-16 20:42 GMT+02:00 Roei Tzoref : > >> Thank you Both. >> >> *Steve*, >> never knew there was a mouse mode! though it does sound weird when the #= 1 >> popular reason for using a Wacom (as described in the media) is that you >> don't have to drag. will try that. >> >> BTW I got a 24" monitor, just the one. >> >> about the buttons, I think the most used functions for me (other than >> double click which I tap twice with my pen so far) are "scroll/pan" and >> "right click". >> so how do you scroll? >> >> and as for pressing the buttons, this may seem like a funny question, bu= t >> can you describe/preferably show me how you hold your pen? I can't seem = to >> click on the buttons without moving the pen. >> and the buttons keep turning away from me as I hold it, so when I need >> them, the movement is unnatural. >> >> *Robert*, >> I see you too use the double click and right click (the default). I just >> thought tapping twice seems pretty natural so I can save a button for >> pan/scroll but maybe I haven't been bitten in the A@@ yet by tapping >> accidentally? >> >> as for tablet setup, after experimenting, I too found that having the >> Wacom on the side is crucial since the keyboard is very needed for >> shortcuts. >> >> will look into that chrome extension. thinking a scroll wheel just at >> the tip of the pen would be nice. >> >> probably just need more pen time, I have only been using it for a couple >> of days. I think I just need to learn how to hold it in a way >> that pressing the buttons will be second nature. probably just need more >> pen time, I have only been using it for a couple of days. >> >> On Sat, Sep 16, 2017 at 9:28 PM, Robert Kjettrup > > wrote: >> >>> i have been an exclusive Wacom user for many many years now, i actually >>> think using a mouse is kinda awkward now :-D >>> my setup is doubleclick on the lower side button and right on upper, an= d >>> for apps that require middle mousebutton i set it up as middle on the >>> lower. That works very nicely for me. >>> >>> I have the wacom to the right of the keyboard, but know many wacom user= s >>> prefer to have the wacom infront of the keyboard. I like to have it to = the >>> side so i can easily access the full keyboard for shortcuts that are ve= ry >>> important to be efficient in AE. >>> >>> As you have found out there is some mousewheel behaviors that is not as >>> easy to perform with a wacom. There is the scroll wheel on the Wacom ta= blet >>> that you can use, but that require you move your keyboard hand quite a = bit, >>> so its not so fast and i tend not to use that very often, and just don'= t >>> use some of the mousewheel features that are in some apps. >>> >>> Im looking for a new keyboard and are thinking og gettting the new >>> Logitech Craft when/if it comes in a 105key nordic edition, that has a >>> builtin multipurpose wheel at the topleft that could be helpful for at >>> least us right-hand users. >>> >>> If you use Chrome as your browser of choice, i highly recommend to >>> download the addon called "scollbar anywhere" that makes it easy to scr= oll >>> most websites by flicking the pen anywhere with eg the right button hel= d >>> down. >>> >>> Then you will find out some applications are just not tested with wacom >>> users before being released, where they require a very precise click wh= ere >>> the pointer cant move any pixels before registering the click. Some Ado= be >>> apps have had this in the past, Premiere being bad at one point, AE for= one >>> version many years ago too, but they are mostly fine now. >>> Any plugin that uses a custom UI can have problems, eg Video Copilot >>> Element is a bit frustrating to get into numerical value input mode, an= d a >>> particular bad example has been Colorista that has such bad precision >>> controls of the color wheels when using a Wacom. >>> >>> Keep using the Wacom exclusively for a couple of weeks and you will soo= n >>> surrender your mouse to the graveyard, overall its a much more natural = and >>> pleasant to work with a pen :-D >>> >>> Robert >>> >>> >>> 2017-09-16 19:46 GMT+02:00 Roei Tzoref : >>> >>>> Thanks Jim. I consider myself very fast with a mouse too.I have not >>>> switched to a tablet for health reasons, though I see many advocate us= ing a >>>> wacom for that reason alone. >>>> I just want to make sure I am as efficient as I can be, and as I said, >>>> adjust myself to the customs of the places I work in. ("get a mouse fo= r >>>> that new guy!", "-a what?", "-he uses a mouse??!") >>>> if everybody there is using a wacom, I might as well get up to speed. >>>> that's what it comes down too I think - speed. and health some say... >>>> >>>> On Sat, Sep 16, 2017 at 6:27 PM, Jim Curtis >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> A lot of people like tablets, but I can work faster with a mouse. >>>>> Most of what I would use with a tablet is cutting masks in Photoshop = for >>>>> faking 3D moves on stills (The Kid Stays in the Picture effect). I l= ost a >>>>> lot of time going back and forth between mouse and tablet. I should = add >>>>> that I=E2=80=99m left handed with the pen, and right handed with the = mouse. The >>>>> times I=E2=80=99ve tried the tablet while my hand was still on the mo= use, the >>>>> cursor jumps all around the screen. >>>>> >>>>> I=E2=80=99m not an advocate for control surfaces, like audio mixing b= oard with >>>>> multiple faders either. I=E2=80=99m used to "rubber band" mixing of = faders with a >>>>> mouse (which is easily doable in Pr, even though it has real-time mix= ing >>>>> capabilities using faders as well), because visual editing of audio i= s so >>>>> intuitive. >>>>> >>>>> It also may be worth considering whether carpal tunnel is an issue fo= r >>>>> you and made better or worse by tablet vs. mouse. >>>>> >>>>> My .02 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> > On Sep 16, 2017, at 5:49 AM, Roei Tzoref >>>>> wrote: >>>>> > >>>>> > Hi, just bought the intuos pro medium. Trying to get into the habit >>>>> of working soley with a Wacom Tablet. I don't paint, but I composite, >>>>> animate, roto and track. Rarely used it before, but have been freelan= cing >>>>> in a place that doesn't even have a mouse, so I want to make a smooth >>>>> transition. >>>>> > >>>>> > I find it a struggle using the pen buttons. I set them to right >>>>> click (the button near the tip) and scroll/pan (the other one). It's = makes >>>>> me move my hand slightly (and the cursor as a result) when I want to = use >>>>> them. >>>>> > >>>>> > Scrolling with the mouse wheel is a feature I use in Ae all the >>>>> time. I am missing finer control there. Right click is also used a lo= t. Do >>>>> any of you have a recommendation for a pen setup?maybe pen holding po= sture >>>>> that could help make this easier? Or is it just something to bare thr= ough >>>>> for a while? What do you use? What is your tablet position setup? >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> . >>>>> >>>>> +---End of message---+ >>>>> To unsubscribe send any message to >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> > --001a1140ae52ea77b7055956ff3c Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks RK :)

On Sun, Sep 17, 2017 at 2:17 AM, Robert Kjettrup <AE-Lis= t@media-motion.tv> wrote:
<= div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Roei

Yes, give it some time, a couple= of weeks is normal before you start feeling comfortable using it for every= thing, maybe try unplugging the mouse so you dont reach to it out of habit = :-)
When i started using a wacom, 15+ years ago, it was because i= started feeling the carpal tunnel syndrome with using the mouse, so i forc= ed myself to use the wacom for everything and i havn't had any issues s= ince then.

As Steve says, you can try out the mous= e mode, i really dont like that mode but i know some do, especially if you = have multiple monitors. When i started to use a Wacom i also went from a du= al 4:3 monitor setup to a widescreen single monitor setup, mostly because o= f the issue with a wacom setup over such a large screen area.=C2=A0
There are some options on the wacom to toggle between multiple displays = if you focus mostly on one of the monitors, it requires a button press on t= he tablet though. Also remember to try out the Precision Mode on the wacom,= that can be really useful at times when precision work is needed and you d= ont want to zoom in.

The double tab to double clic= k is sometimes harder than it should be, since some apps need you to keep t= he pen very still while doing that. Thats why i have set it as a default on= the lower wacom button. After a while you will figure out what works for y= ou :-)

Another small tip if you are on Windows (i = think i remember you are), turn off "Use Windows Ink" under the M= apping tab in the Wacom Tablet Properties, that will save you some frustrat= ions with the annoying rings that otherwise will always show when you click= around. Just remember to turn it off for all Application settings you have= setup for each Pen you have registered.

Robert


2017-09-1= 6 20:42 GMT+02:00 Roei Tzoref <AE-List@media-motion.tv>:
Thank you Both.
<= br>
Steve,
never knew there was a mouse mode! th= ough it does sound weird when the #1 popular reason for using a Wacom (as d= escribed in the media) is that you don't have to drag. will try that.= =C2=A0

BTW I got a 24" monitor, just the= one.=C2=A0

about the buttons, I think the most us= ed functions for me (other than double click which I tap twice with my pen = so far) are "scroll/pan" and "right click".
<= div>so how do you scroll?=C2=A0

and as for pressin= g the buttons, this may seem like a funny question, but can you describe/pr= eferably show me how you hold your pen? I can't seem to click on the bu= ttons without moving the pen.=C2=A0
and the buttons keep turn= ing away from me as I hold it, so when I need them, the movement is unnatur= al.=C2=A0

Robert,=C2=A0
I see you= too use the double click and right click (the default). I just thought tap= ping twice seems pretty natural so I can save a button for pan/scroll but m= aybe I haven't been bitten in the A@@=C2=A0=C2=A0yet by tapping acciden= tally?

as for tablet setup, after experimenting, I= too found that having the Wacom on the side is crucial since the keyboard = is very needed for shortcuts.

will look into that = chrome extension. =C2=A0thinking a scroll wheel just at the tip of the pen = would be nice.=C2=A0

probably just need more pen t= ime, I have only been using it for a couple of days. I think I just need to= learn how to hold it in a way
that pressing the = buttons will be second nature. probably just need more pen time, I have onl= y been using it for a couple of days.

On Sat, Sep 16, 2017 at 9:28 PM, Robert Kjettrup = <AE-List@me= dia-motion.tv> wrote:
i have been an exclusive Wacom user for many many years now, i = actually think using a mouse is kinda awkward now :-D
my setup is doubl= eclick on the lower side button and right on upper, and for apps that requi= re middle mousebutton i set it up as middle on the lower. That works very n= icely for me.

I have the wacom to the right of the= keyboard, but know many wacom users prefer to have the wacom infront of th= e keyboard. I like to have it to the side so i can easily access the full k= eyboard for shortcuts that are very important to be efficient in AE.
<= div>
As you have found out there is some mousewheel behaviors= that is not as easy to perform with a wacom. There is the scroll wheel on = the Wacom tablet that you can use, but that require you move your keyboard = hand quite a bit, so its not so fast and i tend not to use that very often,= and just don't use some of the mousewheel features that are in some ap= ps.

Im looking for a new keyboard and are thinking= og gettting the new Logitech Craft when/if it comes in a 105key nordic edi= tion, that has a builtin multipurpose wheel at the topleft that could be he= lpful for at least us right-hand users.

If you= use Chrome as your browser of choice, i highly recommend to download the a= ddon called "scollbar anywhere" that makes it easy to scroll most= websites by flicking the pen anywhere with eg the right button held down.<= /div>

Then you will find out some applications are just = not tested with wacom users before being released, where they require a ver= y precise click where the pointer cant move any pixels before registering t= he click. Some Adobe apps have had this in the past, Premiere being bad at = one point, AE for one version many years ago too, but they are mostly fine = now.
Any plugin that uses a custom UI can have problems, eg Video= Copilot Element is a bit frustrating to get into numerical value input mod= e, and a particular bad example has been Colorista that has such bad precis= ion controls of the color wheels when using a Wacom.

Keep using the Wacom exclusively for a couple of weeks and you will soon= surrender your mouse to the graveyard, overall its a much more natural and= pleasant to work with a pen :-D

Robert
=

<= span>2017-09-16 19:46 GMT+02:00 Roei Tzoref <AE-List@media-motion.= tv>:
Thanks Jim. I consider myself very fast with a mouse too.I have no= t switched to a tablet for health reasons, though I see many advocate using= a wacom for that reason alone.=C2=A0
I just want to make sure I am as = efficient as I can be, and as I said, adjust myself to the customs of the p= laces I work in. ("get a mouse for that new guy!", "-a what?= ", "-he uses a mouse??!")
if everybody there is us= ing a wacom, I might as well get up to speed. that's what it comes down= too I think - speed. and health some say...=C2=A0

On Sat, Sep 16, 2017 at 6:27= PM, Jim Curtis <AE-List@media-motion.tv> wrote:
A lot of people like tablets, but= I can work faster with a mouse.=C2=A0 Most of what I would use with a tabl= et is cutting masks in Photoshop for faking 3D moves on stills (The Kid Sta= ys in the Picture effect).=C2=A0 I lost a lot of time going back and forth = between mouse and tablet.=C2=A0 I should add that I=E2=80=99m left handed w= ith the pen, and right handed with the mouse.=C2=A0 The times I=E2=80=99ve = tried the tablet while my hand was still on the mouse, the cursor jumps all= around the screen.

I=E2=80=99m not an advocate for control surfaces, like audio mixing board w= ith multiple faders either.=C2=A0 I=E2=80=99m used to "rubber band&quo= t; mixing of faders with a mouse (which is easily doable in Pr, even though= it has real-time mixing capabilities using faders as well), because visual= editing of audio is so intuitive.

It also may be worth considering whether carpal tunnel is an issue for you = and made better or worse by tablet vs. mouse.

My .02


> On Sep 16, 2017, at 5:49 AM, Roei Tzoref <AE-List@media-motion.tv> wrote:<= br> >
> Hi, just bought the intuos pro medium. Trying to get into the habit of= working soley with a Wacom Tablet. I don't paint, but I composite, ani= mate, roto and track. Rarely used it before, but have been freelancing in a= place that doesn't even have a mouse, so I want to make a smooth trans= ition.
>
> I find it a struggle using the pen buttons. I set them to right click = (the button near the tip) and scroll/pan (the other one). It's makes me= move my hand slightly (and the cursor as a result) when I want to use them= .
>
> Scrolling with the mouse wheel is a feature I use in Ae all the time. = I am missing finer control there. Right click is also used a lot. Do any of= you have a recommendation for a pen setup?maybe pen holding posture that c= ould help make this easier? Or is it just something to bare through for a w= hile? What do you use? What is your tablet position setup?
>
>


.

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