Communigate Pro AE-List@media-motion.tv Message 63222

In theory, working in sRGB with a floating point pipeline makes the gamut unbounded; that is, because you can represent RGB values below 0 and above 1, you can reach colors that would normally fall outside of the sRGB gamut, so you should not be clipping color anywhere by using sRGB as your working space at 32bpc.

However, your choice of working space doesn't just define the gamut -- it also relates the RGB values the computer uses to the colors we see. Two different spaces may use different RGB values to represent the same color. Since image processing is math based on these numbers, your choice of working space affects how the tools you use affect the image. Changing the working space after you've done some work will give you different -- sometimes very different -- results, because the numbers don't mean the same thing anymore.

The good news is that if you're working in a color-managed pipeline and stick to sRGB as your one working space, what you see is what you get. The bad news is that the tools don't behave as you might expect with colors that exceed the normal gamut. And of course, any non-float tool will break stuff.

If you want to get a little nerdy:

https://ninedegreesbelow.com/photography/unbounded-srgb-as-universal-working-space.html

TLDR; Adobe recommends working in the widest space that you intend to output. I think that's pretty solid advice.

(I'm not a color scientist, but sometimes I play one on the Internet.)

walter soyka ▼ keen live

walter@keenlive.com

On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 5:58 AM, J Bills <AE-List@media-motion.tv> wrote:

These conversations should usually start (and end) with "I love how Nuke handles this." As far as simplicity/elegance of the float implementation, coupled with speed.

Float is hard in AE. Render times spike, effects are still stuck in 16/8. Color management is complicated in AE. Or at least, relatively so.

When I teach this section of my AE college class, I try to hammer into the students the importance of planning - getting output specs in place from the start and letting that drive many of the decisions. Thinking in terms of acquisition, viewing and output. Taking the path of least resistance wherever possible. They definitely know how to properly work in float and settings to choose for usual srgb viewing and things like that, but they also know the cost involved and, to quote Kenny Rodgers, "know when to run." Staying 8 bit and keeping things simple can sometimes be a big sanity boost, all things considered.

For me personally, the extended gamut only comes into play when grading a feature that's cinema bound. In Resolve. Sometimes it makes sense to go ahead and flip into P3 vs rec709 for the color session, and change the monitors over and that whole dance. It's involved enough that I won't do it for dramas or like romcoms, but there was one recently that was kind of a Scott Pilgrim type of film, with lots of bright colors and clubby laser tag type of in-game scenes all shot raw, where I went ahead with a P3 native grade. I do think it made a difference and I could pick the p3 monitor vs srgb in a pepsi challenge situation. There are definitely colors not reproduceable, if the material is flashy enough.

But in the end, even if you've got the monitor firepower to work extended gamut, often times there's something to be said for just sticking in the same colorspace as your audience and making your decisions there, even if it is dumbed down from what you could potentially be looking at. Although, if you really want to impress a client or director and show colors the "other shops" don't... maybe you flip that switch to higher gamut, I don't know.

You know, those rec2020 "HDR" monitors are such a gimmick, but I can't help but think that it will be nice when everyone levels up and even the lowest denominator TVs can show a wider range. We'll realize how color challenged we once were.

From: After Effects Mail List <AE-List@media-motion.tv> on behalf of Chris Zwar <AE-List@media-motion.tv>
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2017 3:53 PM
To: After Effects Mail List
Subject: Re: [AE] Working spaces other than sRGB

I forgot to add that my main interest in asking is to work out the best technical approach to working with HDR footage in a 32-bit project (usually linear). While I’m interested to know if there are benefits to basic motion graphics and normal HD video, I have often had a hunch that if you have beautiful HDR footage or renders and you want to work in 32-bit float, then sRGB is going to handicap the process somehow...

> On 12 Oct 2017, at 9:49 am, Chris Zwar <AE-List@media-motion.tv> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> Just wondering if/when anyone uses a working space other than sRGB or Rec709. I have always set it to sRGB without giving it too much thought, and for the types of content I often work on that has been fine.
>
> But a few months ago I had some lovely 6K Log footage to play with and I was experimenting with other working spaces to see if there was much difference. While the results on my screen were different, I wouldn’t say they were better or even more accurate… it was fun for an hour or so but I won’t pretend I learned much. Certainly I don’t really know the difference between Adobe RGB, Apple RGB, Wide Gamut RGB etc etc. And while I understand the basics of colour management and a “working space” I have wondered if choosing something non-standard will adversely affect plugins.
>
> So just wondering if anyone else has more technical insight on setting the working space to something other than sRGB (or Rec709) and if that could lead to technical improvements in quality when grading, etc etc.
>
> -Chris
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