From: "Teddy Gage" Received: from mail-qk0-f169.google.com ([209.85.220.169] verified) by media-motion.tv (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.1.0) with ESMTPS id 6337242 for AE-List@media-motion.tv; Sun, 15 Oct 2017 16:13:17 +0200 Received: by mail-qk0-f169.google.com with SMTP id o187so10020543qke.7 for ; Sun, 15 Oct 2017 07:15:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=ikisNbYoPsG8SKcv7hSO5sOAVe+qA+QDPzF/lwKrGNU=; b=eddculCRqD4N7i6jDWjLFufvkYGap9weuGFVLtv2FUTj4QhgsiqdIN3DjSkduiCFGp /SR5TeaHf2f7gy/RiIkppWEXIISSmdugVa9l8AjRO7aXjdTlsJs6s/A1M1RgztygfcZ6 pkyt2XvmOubLhoTjU8H7v1Q+Cvc7/+W5dyWEL4tY4f78Q0LStIvOKih7fFcSwxWed8KN jGiOjxRZUj2ZW1kN8xXTIuETD6qxOfSkDrku0qNRlDQd55Fryn3CiyM6gzD8uKoPI0Vn sSnydz+EKGZ4Zj5AyxHpccdHPm88mUUJCkRp/kdXzA9KQnUsh1UuS0uMnfXwrKqZroe8 oRPg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=ikisNbYoPsG8SKcv7hSO5sOAVe+qA+QDPzF/lwKrGNU=; b=rXZH1Pjfty1H0t/5L+YN0DXKORGQ377uLrkGxnkgafrpSWlKp5xfWIthiynOFXVY4N H8JB/TheIgf6SARwdN7ccgO4WuN1JTKvT1fTWqXxHoTSUR+xudGtJXgB4LGNEVxK/H5c sRwu0vcVEvy+E2+oBBAISvp/QXqkfW+mMHgFX2BMQL3uQa7kUN6bRAWHI1/dtT5HFd5I ZY240yqFL+QT86jyDoj1tfIRp2Toiy9jmT/540WiPTFEa+QGlJSpRjuD/szeNOE71qw4 L0KHtI0f5dH1MYVrTqNuTMHgKoojFDWwRienvTqu57FEGUc5ETGtpqeHXKADtoXltr1L 0wWA== X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaUmtvo4fToay4iGjxrZ5AHg6B1JOEMKA2o5rfTAiwm8VWTSgxn3 lSzvaMjDpgheTTL9iaXtj/BuK7CJ1vMjmdvb7gYgpA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QBvzcCjieyeybhRFWlaxD17zHiaWb7ym6qSMhrHuDjiPaL7Dc9r+qPjOrqjvXF2ErKob4EDO5fOXTJOfhPMApc= X-Received: by 10.55.132.194 with SMTP id g185mr10285735qkd.18.1508076929140; Sun, 15 Oct 2017 07:15:29 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.12.175.7 with HTTP; Sun, 15 Oct 2017 07:14:48 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2017 10:14:48 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [AE] Working spaces other than sRGB To: After Effects Mail List Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="94eb2c075712a7ce38055b968510" --94eb2c075712a7ce38055b968510 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Just to echo this - the free OCIO workflow may help save you from some gray hairs and high blood pressure, since it's the inverse of AE's native color workflow - You only manage color on the layers that need it On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 5:58 AM, J Bills wrote: > These conversations should usually start (and end) with "I love how Nuke > handles this." As far as simplicity/elegance of the float implementation= , > coupled with speed. > > Float is hard in AE. Render times spike, effects are still stuck in > 16/8. Color management is complicated in AE. Or at least, relatively so= . > > When I teach this section of my AE college class, I try to hammer into th= e > students the importance of planning - getting output specs in place from > the start and letting that drive many of the decisions. Thinking in term= s > of acquisition, viewing and output. Taking the path of least resistance > wherever possible. They definitely know how to properly work in float an= d > settings to choose for usual srgb viewing and things like that, but they > also know the cost involved and, to quote Kenny Rodgers, "know when to > run." Staying 8 bit and keeping things simple can sometimes be a big > sanity boost, all things considered. > > For me personally, the extended gamut only comes into play when grading a > feature that's cinema bound. In Resolve. Sometimes it makes sense to go > ahead and flip into P3 vs rec709 for the color session, and change the > monitors over and that whole dance. It's involved enough that I won't do > it for dramas or like romcoms, but there was one recently that was kind o= f > a Scott Pilgrim type of film, with lots of bright colors and clubby laser > tag type of in-game scenes all shot raw, where I went ahead with a P3 > native grade. I do think it made a difference and I could pick the p3 > monitor vs srgb in a pepsi challenge situation. There are definitely > colors not reproduceable, if the material is flashy enough. > > But in the end, even if you've got the monitor firepower to work extended > gamut, often times there's something to be said for just sticking in the > same colorspace as your audience and making your decisions there, even if > it is dumbed down from what you could potentially be looking at. Althoug= h, > if you really want to impress a client or director and show colors the > "other shops" don't... maybe you flip that switch to higher gamut, I don= 't > know. > > You know, those rec2020 "HDR" monitors are such a gimmick, but I can't > help but think that it will be nice when everyone levels up and even the > lowest denominator TVs can show a wider range. We'll realize how color > challenged we once were. > > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* After Effects Mail List on behalf of > Chris Zwar > *Sent:* Wednesday, October 11, 2017 3:53 PM > *To:* After Effects Mail List > *Subject:* Re: [AE] Working spaces other than sRGB > > I forgot to add that my main interest in asking is to work out the best > technical approach to working with HDR footage in a 32-bit project (usual= ly > linear). While I=E2=80=99m interested to know if there are benefits to b= asic > motion graphics and normal HD video, I have often had a hunch that if you > have beautiful HDR footage or renders and you want to work in 32-bit floa= t, > then sRGB is going to handicap the process somehow... > > > On 12 Oct 2017, at 9:49 am, Chris Zwar wrote: > > > > Hi all, > > > > Just wondering if/when anyone uses a working space other than sRGB or > Rec709. I have always set it to sRGB without giving it too much thought, > and for the types of content I often work on that has been fine. > > > > But a few months ago I had some lovely 6K Log footage to play with and = I > was experimenting with other working spaces to see if there was much > difference. While the results on my screen were different, I wouldn=E2= =80=99t say > they were better or even more accurate=E2=80=A6 it was fun for an hour or= so but I > won=E2=80=99t pretend I learned much. Certainly I don=E2=80=99t really k= now the difference > between Adobe RGB, Apple RGB, Wide Gamut RGB etc etc. And while I > understand the basics of colour management and a =E2=80=9Cworking space= =E2=80=9D I have > wondered if choosing something non-standard will adversely affect plugins= . > > > > So just wondering if anyone else has more technical insight on setting > the working space to something other than sRGB (or Rec709) and if that > could lead to technical improvements in quality when grading, etc etc. > > > > -Chris > > +---End of message---+ > > To unsubscribe send any message to > > > +---End of message---+ > To unsubscribe send any message to > --=20 _____________________________ Teddy Gage President Shotgun Inc. 360 VR | MOGRAPH | VFX SHOTGUNPOST.COM BKLYN NY 11215 --94eb2c075712a7ce38055b968510 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Just to echo this - the free OCIO workflow may help save y= ou from some gray hairs and high blood pressure, since it's the inverse= of AE's native color workflow - You only manage color on the layers th= at need it=C2=A0


On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 5:58 AM, J Bills <AE-Lis= t@media-motion.tv> wrote:
These conversations should usually start (and end) with "I love how Nu= ke handles this."=C2=A0 As far as simplicity/elegance of the float imp= lementation, coupled with speed.

Float is hard in AE.=C2=A0 Render times spike, effects are still stuck in 1= 6/8.=C2=A0 Color management is complicated in AE.=C2=A0 Or at least, relati= vely so.

When I teach this section of my AE college class, I try to hammer into the = students the importance of planning - getting output specs in place from th= e start and letting that drive many of the decisions.=C2=A0 Thinking in ter= ms of acquisition, viewing and output.=C2=A0 Taking the path of least resistance wherever possible.=C2=A0 They definite= ly know how to properly work in float and settings to choose for usual srgb= viewing and things like that, but they also know the cost involved and, to= quote Kenny Rodgers, "know when to run."=C2=A0 Staying 8 bit and keeping things simple can sometimes be a big sanity boos= t, all things considered.

For me personally, the extended gamut only comes into play when grading a f= eature that's cinema bound.=C2=A0 In Resolve.=C2=A0 Sometimes it makes = sense to go ahead and flip into P3 vs rec709 for the color session, and cha= nge the monitors over and that whole dance.=C2=A0 It's involved enough that I won't do it for dramas or like romcoms, but the= re was one recently that was kind of a Scott Pilgrim type of film, with lot= s of bright colors and clubby laser tag type of in-game scenes all shot raw= , where I went ahead with a P3 native grade.=C2=A0 I do think it made a difference and I could pick the p3 monit= or vs srgb in a pepsi challenge situation.=C2=A0 There are definitely color= s not reproduceable, if the material is flashy enough.

But in the end, even if you've got the monitor firepower to work extend= ed gamut, often times there's something to be said for just sticking in= the same colorspace as your audience and making your decisions there, even= if it is dumbed down from what you could potentially be looking at.=C2=A0 Although, if you really want to impress a= client or director and show colors the "other shops" don't..= .=C2=A0 maybe you flip that switch to higher gamut, I don't know.

You know, those rec2020 "HDR" monitors are such a gimmick, but I = can't help but think that it will be nice when everyone levels up and e= ven the lowest denominator TVs can show a wider range.=C2=A0 We'll real= ize how color challenged we once were.



From: After Effects Mail List <AE-List@media-motion.tv> on behalf of Chris Zwar &l= t;AE-List@medi= a-motion.tv>
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2017 3:53 PM
To: After Effects Mail List
Subject: Re: [AE] Working spaces other than sRGB
=C2=A0
I forgot to add that my main= interest in asking is to work out the best technical approach to working w= ith HDR footage in a 32-bit project (usually linear).=C2=A0 While I=E2=80= =99m interested to know if there are benefits to basic motion graphics and normal HD video, I have often had a hunch that if you have beautiful H= DR footage or renders and you want to work in 32-bit float, then sRGB is go= ing to handicap the process somehow...

> On 12 Oct 2017, at 9:49 am, Chris Zwar <AE-List@media-motion.tv> wrote: >
> Hi all,
>
> Just wondering if/when anyone uses a working space other than sRGB or = Rec709.=C2=A0 I have always set it to sRGB without giving it too much thoug= ht, and for the types of content I often work on that has been fine.
>
> But a few months ago I had some lovely 6K Log footage to play with and= I was experimenting with other working spaces to see if there was much dif= ference.=C2=A0 While the results on my screen were different, I wouldn=E2= =80=99t say they were better or even more accurate=E2=80=A6 it was fun for an hour or so but I won=E2=80=99t pretend I learned much.= =C2=A0 Certainly I don=E2=80=99t really know the difference between Adobe R= GB, Apple RGB, Wide Gamut RGB etc etc.=C2=A0 And while I understand the bas= ics of colour management and a =E2=80=9Cworking space=E2=80=9D I have wonde= red if choosing something non-standard will adversely affect plugins.
>
> So just wondering if anyone else has more technical insight on setting= the working space to something other than sRGB (or Rec709) and if that cou= ld lead to technical improvements in quality when grading, etc etc.
>
> -Chris
> +---End of message---+
> To unsubscribe send any message to <ae-list-off@media-motion.tv>


+---End of message---+
To unsubscribe send any message to <ae-list-off@media-motion.tv>



--
_____________________________
Teddy Gage
<= font color=3D"#cc0000" face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif" size=3D"2">Pre= sident
Shotgun Inc.
360 VR | MOGRAPH | VFX
BKLYN NY 11215
=
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