Mailing List AE-List@media-motion.tv — Message #63236
From: Chris Zwar <AE-List@media-motion.tv>
Subject: Re: [AE] Working spaces other than sRGB
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2017 10:18:27 +1100
To: After Effects Mail List <AE-List@media-motion.tv>
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Thanks, always good to have something new to read.

In this case I’m not worried about workflow or any delivery requirements, I was just wondering if working spaces were analogous to bit depth in terms of technical quality.  For example, even if you are delivering an 8 bit file, there are clear and demonstrable benefits to working in 16 or 32 bit.  So I was wondering if the same is true for working spaces - even if you are delivering sRGB, are there benefits to working in something wider? In this case, it appears the analogy does not hold up and if you’re delivery sRGB, then best to work in sRGB.

I did have a friend working on a feature asking if I knew anything about ACES workflow, and I was ashamed to say I’d never even heard of it!  There’s a bullet I’ve managed to avoid so far…

-Chris


On 16 Oct 2017, at 1:14 am, Teddy Gage <AE-List@media-motion.tv> wrote:

Just to echo this - the free OCIO workflow may help save you from some gray hairs and high blood pressure, since it's the inverse of AE's native color workflow - You only manage color on the layers that need it 


On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 5:58 AM, J Bills <AE-List@media-motion.tv> wrote:
These conversations should usually start (and end) with "I love how Nuke handles this."  As far as simplicity/elegance of the float implementation, coupled with speed.

Float is hard in AE.  Render times spike, effects are still stuck in 16/8.  Color management is complicated in AE.  Or at least, relatively so.

When I teach this section of my AE college class, I try to hammer into the students the importance of planning - getting output specs in place from the start and letting that drive many of the decisions.  Thinking in terms of acquisition, viewing and output.  Taking the path of least resistance wherever possible.  They definitely know how to properly work in float and settings to choose for usual srgb viewing and things like that, but they also know the cost involved and, to quote Kenny Rodgers, "know when to run."  Staying 8 bit and keeping things simple can sometimes be a big sanity boost, all things considered.

For me personally, the extended gamut only comes into play when grading a feature that's cinema bound.  In Resolve.  Sometimes it makes sense to go ahead and flip into P3 vs rec709 for the color session, and change the monitors over and that whole dance.  It's involved enough that I won't do it for dramas or like romcoms, but there was one recently that was kind of a Scott Pilgrim type of film, with lots of bright colors and clubby laser tag type of in-game scenes all shot raw, where I went ahead with a P3 native grade.  I do think it made a difference and I could pick the p3 monitor vs srgb in a pepsi challenge situation.  There are definitely colors not reproduceable, if the material is flashy enough.

But in the end, even if you've got the monitor firepower to work extended gamut, often times there's something to be said for just sticking in the same colorspace as your audience and making your decisions there, even if it is dumbed down from what you could potentially be looking at.  Although, if you really want to impress a client or director and show colors the "other shops" don't...  maybe you flip that switch to higher gamut, I don't know.

You know, those rec2020 "HDR" monitors are such a gimmick, but I can't help but think that it will be nice when everyone levels up and even the lowest denominator TVs can show a wider range.  We'll realize how color challenged we once were.



From: After Effects Mail List <AE-List@media-motion.tv> on behalf of Chris Zwar <AE-List@media-motion.tv>
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2017 3:53 PM
To: After Effects Mail List
Subject: Re: [AE] Working spaces other than sRGB
 
I forgot to add that my main interest in asking is to work out the best technical approach to working with HDR footage in a 32-bit project (usually linear).  While I’m interested to know if there are benefits to basic motion graphics and normal HD video, I have often had a hunch that if you have beautiful HDR footage or renders and you want to work in 32-bit float, then sRGB is going to handicap the process somehow...

> On 12 Oct 2017, at 9:49 am, Chris Zwar <AE-List@media-motion.tv> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> Just wondering if/when anyone uses a working space other than sRGB or Rec709.  I have always set it to sRGB without giving it too much thought, and for the types of content I often work on that has been fine.
>
> But a few months ago I had some lovely 6K Log footage to play with and I was experimenting with other working spaces to see if there was much difference.  While the results on my screen were different, I wouldn’t say they were better or even more accurate… it was fun for an hour or so but I won’t pretend I learned much.  Certainly I don’t really know the difference between Adobe RGB, Apple RGB, Wide Gamut RGB etc etc.  And while I understand the basics of colour management and a “working space” I have wondered if choosing something non-standard will adversely affect plugins.
>
> So just wondering if anyone else has more technical insight on setting the working space to something other than sRGB (or Rec709) and if that could lead to technical improvements in quality when grading, etc etc.
>
> -Chris
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--
_____________________________
Teddy Gage
President
Shotgun Inc.
360 VR | MOGRAPH | VFX
BKLYN NY 11215


 
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