From: "Roei Tzoref" Received: from mail-it0-f42.google.com ([209.85.214.42] verified) by media-motion.tv (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.1.0) with ESMTPS id 6399613 for AE-List@media-motion.tv; Sat, 03 Feb 2018 21:03:28 +0100 Received: by mail-it0-f42.google.com with SMTP id j21-v6so4328653ita.1 for ; Sat, 03 Feb 2018 12:06:35 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=fBDe60r9ly3xQBtJ8uuqOrYySe1D8YPFrDFBzOttjBY=; b=rf+O5Sfv2f1KsH3yTHipdkc5+ptNiQ/BjsEONK4xH6P48IuKZZH3HpnDSQ3lu71QZ2 +NvIeXS3nnTun/k/u/Oh3o4MCzf0tLAZxO9VXFcnyGzFJU0nIh7s+VvDOQhEnYvdQX+o zg8XNLVLedi41VAS+Rb6S1Iy/szlRqIoSmkVjan/4UTFLcoUUM27/5o2HYVg0oPfrZMk 7H13aVg6yEB1xz9niIuFB8zZi//AkZPixuf8m3+5fSX2hXZh/0W9JFQdDM+M2+VEBpih tFlAWEJJGZluehreFkRcrMxhhwc/LHDmCh1KPH0H/qdLy1QsszoHwXLxmXBpNk7PvXR8 W18A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=fBDe60r9ly3xQBtJ8uuqOrYySe1D8YPFrDFBzOttjBY=; b=ZKyhxL/Dm2sIkqb6cv27WgHjVQ2j+TOrnl4f4xM8EjjtEezUytxcr/vB/JKppoh/4i AYt5l+Hmawjq8ZkNgP10A1bk4AXJWT1WD+NL+B/HH4dH3vSCXXlNGucLfbXAbXOCUjOF ciHdYdYk8mkZ8wVRkSTMTnZshYGfQ6xW6M34YI7/IKOnEynj8NhCDJYaLBr3fshWdeO7 5dWbn9+3f5hEX3i2ylNO95GrEk12ibXjTWb9qU9dWRFADqeev/KhEvTMv/rKo6V5ZMV8 PG3Cg1oJU8gmHPC0PIZ0ETaw55i8L+OnqOjt3exhBVvINRvMvPLkjj0jFPNl5GRWFo0S dqlg== X-Gm-Message-State: AKwxytf/pbLvJIbDGZVB5hLTkbEpLkvRANMkLWfVlQ8ylDM9sFyhXebz +hhowcU4PsoKjx4kJPs9tcCaIxHDEf0NMOOUSHY= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AH8x225VkBcYfRoI14En2WbvfWi+c/SlTyE/LLow3YQV6QuJzTl3rJePj0REmgx0W8F8Wd6c0Mt1fj2M/cZL9JwRq0M= X-Received: by 10.36.246.70 with SMTP id u67mr34835426ith.29.1517688393843; Sat, 03 Feb 2018 12:06:33 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.2.79.153 with HTTP; Sat, 3 Feb 2018 12:05:53 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2018 22:05:53 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [AE] Greenscreen s-log2 workflow queries for the color spaced challenged To: After Effects Mail List Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="94eb2c03411a984b930564545de1" --94eb2c03411a984b930564545de1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Robert thanks for your response. since the email I have been consulted by some experience used and the term "debayering" came up so I guess this was the case. Raw viewer was successful in exporting the footage correctly with no issues and I keyed it as rec709 settings that I did in the Raw viewer. there should not be any more grading (other than just a little color matching) and I don't think I would want to key slog because the colors would be very soft. if anything I think I would convert to rec709, do the key and use the matte for the slog... once again I dodged the whole color management workflow completely (which is still over my head sorry to say). I have another footage coming up so this time I will go straight to raw viewer, export the dpx 10bit in rec709 setting, and carry on to Ae. On Fri, Feb 2, 2018 at 5:10 PM, Robert Kjettrup wrote: > Hi Roei > > That 200% view looked a very messed up debayered footage. Maybe Sony have > changed something in their raw format that the Adobe Sony raw importer cant > debayer correctly? > > Its been quite long time since i have worked with Sony raw footage, but by > your explaination i can see there not has been much if any progress at > Adobe to better support Sony Cinealta raw images. What i found was that > Adobe reads it with an rec709 profile as default, and as many Sony camera > operators are overexposing by 1 or 2 stops to get better noiselevels it > then looks totally blown out as default in Adobe. But i see that the guy > who shot what you are working on didn't overexpose on purpose :-) > So in the past i have always gone through the Sony Raw Converter, that is > the most secure way to get good results. In that app you also can change > more raw settings than in Adobe that last time i looked only had 1 setting: > Rec709 or Slog2 color. That the camera was set to Slog2 should be > detected in the Sony Raw app, but that is just what they exposed to on set, > you can change it to Slog3 in the app if you want and you see it getting > better results for your work. > > Just make sure that you are not supposed to deliver your comped footage in > Slog2, since that might what they want in the grading stage. Now that you > have keyed and comped in Rec709 it might be hard to deliver a right Slog2 > back to them? > > Hope you dont have to redo too much work if that is required > > Robert > > > > > 2018-01-31 3:24 GMT+01:00 Roei Tzoref : > >> hey y'all. >> >> so I got a footage to key and roto. I have been told it's 444 so was >> pleased. >> >> it was an mxf file, imported to Ae and saw it was stated as RAW. I saw >> the color and contrast was good and immediately got to work. >> >> this is how it looked in Ae: >> https://imgur.com/a/ZkcQ0 >> >> on 200% it looked a bit funky but I just ignored it (WRONG!) and carried >> on. >> https://imgur.com/a/j7eyG >> >> >> about 80% into the project it started to bug me so I asked the cameraman >> and indeed something was off. so he told me I should download RAW viewer >> and export from there. so imported the file to the software, and now I was >> faced to decide which input parameters to enter. I obviously wanted the >> exact same color profile I had in Ae but how could I know which one is it. >> I was told the footage was shot in Sony f5, slog2, raw. but I already keyed >> the footage on what appears to be some sort of rec709 color space. so I >> entered those in the Raw app and exported a dpx 444 (the only option for >> 444) with these settings: >> https://imgur.com/a/wgewj >> >> and now it's about 90% what it was before, some keying had to be >> readjusted but I am in the clear for finishing the project >> >> now I know this is a mess of a workflow my questions is: >> 1. is there a reason the footage came distorted like this from the camera >> and I had to use the RAW viewer software to reexport it? >> 2. what was the color profile on this RAW footage? is there a way to >> tell? how can I know to match it if I get this type of scenario again? >> 3. what would be the right way to work? export from RAW viewere as >> s-log2, then in Ae convert to linear and key? I have looking into >> http://opencolorio.org/ but after converting from slog2 to ACES, the >> image looks too contrasty for keying. >> https://imgur.com/a/K0YYZ >> >> thanks >> >> >> > --94eb2c03411a984b930564545de1 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Robert thanks for your response.=C2=A0

since the email I have been consulted by some experience used and the te= rm "debayering" came up so I guess this was the case. Raw viewer = was successful in exporting the footage correctly with no issues and I keye= d it as rec709 settings that I did in the Raw viewer. there should not be a= ny more grading (other than just a little color matching) and I don't t= hink I would want to key slog because the colors would be very soft. if any= thing I think I would convert to rec709, do the key and use the matte for t= he slog... once again I dodged the whole color management workflow complete= ly (which is still over my head sorry to say). I have another footage comin= g up so this time I will go straight to raw viewer, export the dpx 10bit in= rec709 setting, and carry on to Ae.




On Fri, Feb 2, 2018 at 5:10 PM, Robert Kjettrup <AE-List@media-moti= on.tv> wrote:
Hi Roei

That 200% view looked a very messed up debayered = footage. Maybe Sony have changed something in their raw format that the Ado= be Sony raw importer cant debayer correctly?

Its been quite long time since i have worked = with Sony raw footage, but by your explaination i can see there not has bee= n much if any progress at Adobe to better support Sony Cinealta raw images.= What i found was that Adobe reads it with an rec709 profile as default, an= d as many Sony camera operators are overexposing by 1 or 2 stops to get bet= ter noiselevels it then looks totally blown out as default in Adobe. But i = see that the guy who shot what you are working on didn't overexpose on = purpose :-)
So in the past i have always gone through the Sony Ra= w Converter, that is the most secure way to get good results. In that app y= ou also can change more raw settings than in Adobe that last time i looked = only had 1 setting: Rec709 or=20 Slog2=C2=A0color. That the ca= mera was set to Slog2 should be detected in the Sony Raw app, but that is j= ust what they exposed to on set, you can change it to Slog3 in the app if y= ou want and you see it getting better results for your work.

=
Just make sure that you are not supposed to deliver your comped = footage in Slog2, since that might what they want in the grading stage. Now= that you have keyed and comped in Rec709 it might be hard to deliver a rig= ht Slog2 back to them?

Hope you dont have to redo = too much work if that is required

Robert




2018-01-31 3:24 GMT+01:00 R= oei Tzoref <AE-List@media-motion.tv>:
hey y'all.=C2=A0

= so I got a footage to key and roto. I have been told it's 444=C2=A0 so = was pleased.

it was an mxf file, imported to Ae an= d saw it was stated as RAW. I saw the color and contrast was good and immed= iately got to work.

this is how it looked in Ae:

on 200% it looked a bit fu= nky but I just ignored it (WRONG!) and carried on.


about 80% into the project it star= ted to bug me so I asked the cameraman and indeed something was off. so he = told me I should download RAW viewer and export from there. so imported the= file to the software, and now I was faced to decide which input parameters= to enter. I obviously wanted the exact same color profile I had in Ae but = how could I know which one is it.=C2=A0 I was told the footage was shot in= =C2=A0Sony f5, slog2, raw. but I already keyed the footage on what appears = to be some sort of rec709 color space. so I entered those in the Raw app an= d exported a dpx 444 (the only option for 444) with these settings:
https://imgur.co= m/a/wgewj

and now it's about 90% what = it was before, some keying had to be readjusted but I am in the clear for f= inishing the project

now I know this is a mess of = a workflow my questions is:
1. is there a reason the footage came= distorted like this from the camera and I had to use the RAW viewer softwa= re to reexport it?
2. what was the color profile on this RAW foot= age? is there a way to tell? how can I know to match it if I get this type = of scenario again?
3. what would be the right way to work? export= from RAW viewere as s-log2, then in Ae convert to linear and key? I have l= ooking into http://op= encolorio.org/ but after converting from slog2 to ACES, the image looks= too contrasty for keying.=C2=A0

thanks




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