From: "Jim Curtis" <AE-List@media-motion.tv>
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Subject: Re: [AE] Premiere with UHD HDR10 material.
In-Reply-To: <list-6411492@media-motion.tv>
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2018 14:47:26 -0600
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References: <list-6411492@media-motion.tv>
To: After Effects Mail List <AE-List@media-motion.tv>

Hi RJ,

As you probably know, H.264 can accommodate varying bit-rates, and as I =
mentioned already, he lower the bit rate, the more the CPU has to work =
to decompress the video on the fly.

I=E2=80=99m not familiar with the "HEVC Main 10 BT2020 HDR codec=E2=80=9D =
unless that just happens to be invisible to me.  The only time I dive =
deep into encoder settings is when I get specifications from an ad =
distro like AdStream or HDFastChannel, etc.

I call video compression / decompression one of =E2=80=9Cthe black =
arts.=E2=80=9D  A lot of it is magic, as far as I know.

Ae will tell you if you=E2=80=99re in a 16-bit or 32-bit project and you =
apply an effect that=E2=80=99s only 8 or 16-bit. =20

In Pr, you can tell which of the effects are 32-bit color (or GPU =
accelerated or YUV) by the icons to the right of the name in the Effects =
Tab.  This is why, if I can do projects in Pr as opposed to Ae, I choose =
Pr to make use of my Titan GPU.=20

There are ways to purge RAM without restarting.  There are some =
utilities for this (like MemoryClean), and you can do it in the Terminal =
with sudo purge .  You can run those without quitting Pr.

The =E2=80=9Cnoise=E2=80=9D you mention might be layers of compression =
artifacts.  You might have better luck with your layering and noise if =
you transcoded your files to a lightly compressed intraframe format like =
ProRes4444 or DNxHR 444.  That would also take stress off a CPU decoding =
multiple layers of Long-GOP.

I have no experience with Resolve or FCPX.  So, I can=E2=80=99t help  =
with that question.

As for stability and Pr, CC17 and CC18 have been the most stable for me. =
 I don=E2=80=99t think the OS has that much to do with it.  I think most =
of the past issues were in the Adobe code.  I have one client who runs =
CC18 on Windows machines, and they=E2=80=99ve been more problematic, but =
my anecdote is hardly universal.

Prior builds of Pr used to be bad at corrupting their own preferences, =
render and cache files.  I haven=E2=80=99t noticed that nearly as much =
in the last two major releases.  Most of the issues I have with Pr in =
the last couple of years have been due to corrupt media, corrupt =
sequences, corrupt projects, and corrupt plug in instances - all of =
which were easily fixed, once I=E2=80=99d figured out what the culprit =
was.

About the only complaint I have now is that the Dynamic Link between Ae =
and Pr can become unlinked as I switch around projects, and that the DL =
to AME is pretty flakey some times from either Pr and Ae.  And I suspect =
that=E2=80=99s also a code problem, not due to OSX.  My other complaint =
has been aired on this forum by many others, that Ae seems to render =
less efficiently than it did going back to Ae CC14.  Most of my Ae =
crashes now are either plug-in or GPU related.


> On Feb 28, 2018, at 2:00 PM, email blanca <AE-List@media-motion.tv> =
wrote:
>=20
> Thank you Jim=E2=80=A6
>=20
> I=E2=80=99m digesting your comments but wanted to follow up.
>=20
> This current effort is creating custom UHD HDR10 test patterns.  I =
started with some .mp4 files in the HEVC Main 10 BT2020 HDR codec. Files =
that one would use for calibrating a projector or a display.
>=20
> I have two sets of calibration files I have been playing with=E2=80=A6
>=20
> 1) the calibration file on can find on all Sony UHD HDR BDs.
> 2) Ryan=E2=80=99s HDR10 test patterns.
>=20
> Using these test pattern files, once I get beyond a 5-8 layers, I =
start having issues with random noise in the project monitor and =
sometimes on the desktop. Sometimes the program monitor will not even =
outoput an image. I often have to restart to clear the GPU and system =
ram, and I can proceed once again until the problem occurs again.
>=20
> I then tried replacing the original test pattern video files with =
image layers adjust to the various HDR10 luminance values of the test =
pattern. With this approach, I can get to maybe 20 nested image layers =
before I start having the same issue of the program monitor not =
rendering an image. I can get many more layers with an 8bit source =
layer, so I=E2=80=99m assuming it=E2=80=99s the extra needs of the 10bit =
layer that is jamming things up.
>=20
> I also noticed when working with the 10bit luminance range, some =
effects like LEVELS will cause the layer to remap to an 8bit luminance =
range. Turning the effect off restores the 10bit mapping. This is what I =
was gonna try in AE to see if AE is more 10bit friendly.
>=20
> I=E2=80=99m also curious if FCP X or Resolve tend to me more friendly =
with HDR & 10bit?
>=20
> I will look into pickng up 8x 16GB chips. I did try leaving more =
memory for the system as well as switching between performance and =
memory settings.
>=20
> I will be working on a small, free project shot with the Sony AX53 and =
Panasonic 981K camcorders in 4K. Not sure if I will try editing in the =
native codec at 3840 x 2160, or I will transcode to HD for editing and =
finishing and call it a day. It=E2=80=99s gonna end up the web anyway.
>=20
> Last thing I=E2=80=99d love to ask=E2=80=A6 if there is a most stable =
setup for Premiere Pro?  For instance, which version of OS X and which =
version of Premiere.  While I want to keep a SDD of 10.10.5 available, I =
can rebuild an alternate SSD with a better setup and then maybe see =
about letting that become my main setup.  One other benefit of moving up =
to atleast El Capitan, I could run Resolve under OS X instead of =
switching to Win 10.
>=20
> Thanks again for your feedback.
>=20
> RJ
> =E2=80=A6.
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>> On Feb 28, 2018, at 2:24 PM, Jim Curtis <AE-List@media-motion.tv> =
wrote:
>>=20
>> I can comment on some of this.  A hot GPU will help most in Pr if you =
stack GPU accelerated effects, and for the encoding / export of H.264.  =
Ae hasn=E2=80=99t gotten around to using the GPU on too many effects =
yet.
>>=20
>> You didn=E2=80=99t say what codec your source footage was.  Long-GOP =
codecs will stress your CPUs more as the footage is more compressed.  If =
you layer several highly compressed Long-GOP clips, you can expect =
playback performance to suffer.
>>=20
>> I=E2=80=99ve not noticed much difference in OSX versions as far as =
Premiere performance, up to El Capitan, 10.11.6.  Newer OSes seem to =
boot faster than the previous ones.  SSDs boot faster than spinning =
disks, too.
>>=20
>> Your MacPro5.1 should hold 128 GB of RAM.  I recently upgraded to =
that model from a 3,1 with a max of 32GB RAM, and I was having to purge =
the RAM frequently, as the RAM would fill up and start dropping frames =
like crazy.  Now, with 128 GB of RAM on my 5,1, with Ae running =
simultaneously, I=E2=80=99ve so far not maxed out all the RAM, and have =
only gone as far as like 24GB left (which is what my settings reserve =
for other apps). =20
>>=20
>> I have the hottest GPU for Mac, the Nvidia Titan, and the combo of =
the RAM and the GPU has made a substantial difference in terms of render =
times and real-time playback (vs. the old 3,1 lesser equipped with RAM =
and Nvidia K5000 GPU) of the sources I receive from clients, which is a =
variety of AVCHD, AVC-Intra, Sony MXF, Sony XD-Cam, ProRes, etc.  I =
often edit with 4K and UHD sources, and most often finish at 1080 HD.
>>=20
>> It might not be wrong to infer that UHD HDR will use more RAM.=20
>>=20
>> A lot of producers / shooters have been seduced by 4K, and buy =
cameras with a crappy Long-GOP codec that slows the native post process. =
 That said, I can generally play back 4K without dropping frames that =
isn=E2=80=99t in a RAW format.  I rarely have more than three or four =
video streams playing simultaneously in Pr.
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>> On Feb 28, 2018, at 12:55 PM, email blanca <AE-List@media-motion.tv> =
wrote:
>>>=20
>>> Greetings=E2=80=A6
>>>=20
>>> Re: [AE] Premiere with UHD HDR10 material.
>>>=20
>>> Can anyone comment on editing 3840 x 2160 HDR 10 material in =
Premiere?
>>>=20
>>> I am trying to build some test patterns and I am finding once I =
reach a certain number of layers, I lose the ability of the GPU to =
render the program monitor.
>>>=20
>>> I=E2=80=99m running a 5,1 MacPro 64GB ram, 3.43 Ghz 12 cores, nVidia =
GTS 980 Ti 6GB, 10.10.5 and CC Premiere Pro 2017.
>>>=20
>>> I wondered if I might get different results upgrading to 10.11.x or =
10.12.x, or switching to a better GPU?
>>>=20
>>> I can send sequences to Media Encoder and they are rendering fine to =
HEVC Main 10 bt 2020 HDR.
>>>=20
>>> I=E2=80=99m gonna try AE to see if it might work out better.
>>>=20
>>> Thanks in advance.
>>>=20
>>> RJ
>>> mactunes
>>>=20
>>> +---End of message---+
>>> To unsubscribe send any message to <ae-list-off@media-motion.tv>
>>=20
>>=20
>> +---End of message---+
>> To unsubscribe send any message to <ae-list-off@media-motion.tv>
>>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
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