From: "Steve Oakley" Received: from mout.perfora.net ([74.208.4.196] verified) by media-motion.tv (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.1.0) with ESMTPS id 6431813 for AE-List@media-motion.tv; Fri, 06 Apr 2018 20:39:49 +0200 Received: from [10.1.1.99] ([71.87.57.30]) by mrelay.perfora.net (mreueus001 [74.208.5.2]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0LmtYY-1eaiRz1gvk-00h9LD for ; Fri, 06 Apr 2018 20:44:59 +0200 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_75DC9DAF-46B2-4220-9A17-FF9B9A6C9A35" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.3 \(3445.6.18\)) Subject: Re: [AE] Mac QuickTime codecs in latest update Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2018 13:44:58 -0500 References: To: After Effects Mail List In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <409EA9E3-DF9C-40E1-B570-C2FBE93AE964@practicalillusions.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.6.18) X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:HSAgS7rmBtdkAt2/35xdiSgHRhR5CBBC4+xSKkYX+ZTDA/f8gZb cPSE67woyuPxNhtNJWnoxLdmo4lEiA3+PL0VlfKUBD2muwpYoYnXIWaBCCIET+f4zslkKCT Tx5eBF7IwluShdN3GjgkuzibjhLFhDbF04du7dzx7Vdc1Kw19Jx3aDZ0vw3bV3SGSOvvl/0 TlTjl8U4HtO3GcNR1nnzw== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:9gSVGwiDGB0=:uGGSX0IMq64ohxmutIDyXV aaSmyriYTjLAD5FxxplIH4guSoUYoRDfKM2tZj5d9GQDGNM39cNbshLymZZ5JGChRtW8D48d8 RjereZrmzcG7Vs1XWkfkJl39Xs+cFr1N6HKYGh7A4MXwGdgjmYkpArwZSPBr2v7TESeN/6yoi 7SPZjMn74CDpd3jaWmIEIhMTeYVflPPqqxBPzgMuqNM0Gag/Sy+V9UZ2naqawwIdQkkBkD1Bd GfARSoYXH8A3ZbG8299dWU4x+YdGMBAFmy/FwHGu2YIZq1jqrzTLPyH7YBDqUqlzrES7wD9ax WQhvB9gagULdLQm6PQunRxvRSC64yqM89B6RkkOu+LZsFWvHY9cyDVgYeHB9v+sqbgCm6N7p4 CWEiMWNIehnrH4KRHPHFaZQ1ZRNG2aTcYfTgcErflA1qZht5BMqjgXC0W2q28h3Uky3DUCxhN iUOUSg3+MKJuFSfJoWY1m0XKtZ5V98+UcdlIKsRJJNl4TsLux4uKKSpLqATjeCbazcVevoGZt vQtKzZ4TDK2qXF86uyWiLRooiNi7uSe/8ViAoLawdsxoX6OLL6d7mdqAQ7193yBaAM8ifo3gX J1gB4bRFdX9+F5B2Uq7bcJ2InPLsvgY4a8eCjoXQOiAohz5/WBz39hzlXtcfkmxfL6/xDSXHW lZ7tsiZ8C55sNocDyeJ5rXH2GuOsqobaZp3+bBxKwCP0vCZen2b7RQqQEXV2Rzn5urUwXTU1x s3nEFMWyl8nGF1b7yb0K7KDcnsqOJ6j3Xe0rPkjQiUsLJo++gZAAeJTN4cc= --Apple-Mail=_75DC9DAF-46B2-4220-9A17-FF9B9A6C9A35 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 @Victoria : we=E2=80=99ve had this conversation on this list a few = times. its not a huge list, but there are probably 4 or 5 that = constantly come up like PhotoJpeg, Mjpeg A/B, and a couple others. Also = on the public page addressing this, the supported codecs list is very = incomplete, for example you just list =E2=80=9CDV=E2=80=9D which really = means DV25, DV50 and DV100. please update this page to be as complete as = possible. The problem with =E2=80=9Ctrying something new=E2=80=9D may well mean = that the person or company getting your deliverables would need to do a = hardware upgrade like on their playout server, or at least a ( likely = paid $$$$ ) softrware update. Good luck with getting a TVS to update = their airplay server unless its automatic and in the BG. Good luck with = getting some corp client with a 10 year old playout system in their = presentation theater to change it , or a large AV company handling LED = walls.=20 At one point, we were doing 2k to 5K projects that got tiled up into = 720X480 grids, laid off to digitbeta, then loaded into the AV companies = playout boxes which ran 6-8 streams of SD, then DVE=E2=80=99d into = position on the walls. Ya thats pretty screwed up, but thats how it = worked at the time. The last 2 weeks I=E2=80=99ve been digitizing audio cassttes @ 96K/24 = mostly for better noise processing. Problem is I had to buy a working = tape deck which lasted for about 20 tapes before failing. Similar = problem loading a few VHS tapes too this week. Its not the media which = seems to be doing ok, its keeping a working playback machine. Thankfully = I did all my BetaSP stuff almost 10 years ago. When I did, I choose = ProRes LT after testing - regular 422 didn=E2=80=99t make a difference = except for bigger file sizes. DV50 which I also like(d) as a SD codec = was about the same size as 422 and its future support was questionable. = I still don=E2=80=99t trust apple with ProRes. Having a working tape = machine is an understandable problem, having software codecs to playback = old media isn=E2=80=99t.=20 S > On Apr 6, 2018, at 9:38 AM, Stephen van Vuuren = wrote: >=20 > > Sometimes things are =E2=80=9Ccritical to people=E2=80=99s = workflow=E2=80=9D only because they can=E2=80=99t be bothered trying = something new.=20 > =20 > Some people criticize without bothering to understand another = person=E2=80=99s point of view. I sincerely doubt anyone who uses AE is = a person who =E2=80=9Ccan=E2=80=99t be bothered to try something new=E2=80= =9D. That would be the people still using the COSA version=E2=80=A6=F0=9F=98= =8A > =20 > Seriously =E2=80=93 legacy support of older codecs is major issue in = digital media to the point of arguably the #1 long-term problem in the = field. Given that major efforts by major institutions are underway to = figure out long-term access to digital media created. It can be argued = the =E2=80=9Ctry something new=E2=80=9D contributes to this problem. > =20 > You=E2=80=99ve got everyone from families with old cellphone videos to = major works of arts in formats that have been idled. And it=E2=80=99s = just video =E2=80=93 everything from old screenplay formats, Word docs = from the 1990s, audio formats from the 80s/90s. > =20 > So maybe vote for legacy formats even if they don=E2=80=99t help you = personally. > =20 > Let us know if others are critical to your workflow. You can vote for = us to add native PhotoJPEG support here: = https://adobe-video.uservoice.com/forums/911311-after-effects/suggestions/= 33841261-photojpeg-quicktime-support = > =20 > =20 > No, but thanks for the explanation. Makes sense. I=E2=80=99ve never = bothered with any of the lower quality Pro Res codecs before but 422 LT = seems to give good results initially and is about half the size of my = PhotoJpeg files. Sometimes things are =E2=80=9Ccritical to people=E2=80=99= s workflow=E2=80=9D only because they can=E2=80=99t be bothered trying = something new.=20 --Apple-Mail=_75DC9DAF-46B2-4220-9A17-FF9B9A6C9A35 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 @Victoria : we=E2=80=99ve had this conversation on this list = a few times. its not a huge list, but there are probably 4 or 5 that = constantly come up like PhotoJpeg, Mjpeg A/B, and a couple others. Also = on the public page addressing this, the supported codecs list is very = incomplete, for example you just list =E2=80=9CDV=E2=80=9D which really = means DV25, DV50 and DV100. please update this page to be as complete as = possible.

The = problem with =E2=80=9Ctrying something new=E2=80=9D may well mean that = the person or company getting your deliverables would need to do a = hardware upgrade like on their playout server, or at least a ( likely = paid $$$$ ) softrware update. Good luck with getting a TVS to update = their airplay server unless its automatic and in the BG. Good luck with = getting some corp client with a 10 year old playout system in their = presentation theater to change it , or a large AV company handling LED = walls. 

At = one point, we were doing  2k to 5K projects that got tiled up into = 720X480 grids, laid off to digitbeta, then loaded into the AV companies = playout boxes which ran 6-8 streams of SD, then DVE=E2=80=99d into = position on the walls. Ya thats pretty screwed up, but thats how it = worked at the time.

The last 2 weeks I=E2=80=99ve been digitizing audio cassttes = @ 96K/24  mostly for better noise processing. Problem is I had to = buy a working tape deck which lasted for about 20 tapes before failing. = Similar problem loading a few VHS tapes too this week. Its not the media = which seems to be doing ok, its keeping a working playback machine. = Thankfully I did all my BetaSP stuff almost 10 years ago. When I did, I = choose ProRes LT after testing - regular 422 didn=E2=80=99t make a = difference except for bigger file sizes. DV50 which I also like(d) as a = SD codec was about the same size as 422 and its future support was = questionable. I still don=E2=80=99t trust apple with  ProRes. = Having a working tape machine is an understandable problem, having = software codecs to playback old media isn=E2=80=99t. 

S

On Apr = 6, 2018, at 9:38 AM, Stephen van Vuuren <AE-List@media-motion.tv> wrote:

> Sometimes things are = =E2=80=9Ccritical to people=E2=80=99s workflow=E2=80=9D only because = they can=E2=80=99t be bothered trying something new. 
 
Some = people criticize without bothering to understand another person=E2=80=99s = point of view. I sincerely doubt anyone who uses AE is a person who = =E2=80=9Ccan=E2=80=99t be bothered to try something new=E2=80=9D. That = would be the people still using the COSA version=E2=80=A6=F0=9F=98=8A
 
Seriously =E2=80=93 legacy support of = older codecs is major issue in digital media to the point of arguably = the #1 long-term problem in the field. Given that major efforts by major = institutions are underway to figure out long-term access to digital = media created. It can be argued the =E2=80=9Ctry something new=E2=80=9D = contributes to this problem.
 
You=E2=80=99ve got everyone from = families with old cellphone videos to major works of arts in formats = that have been idled. And it=E2=80=99s just video =E2=80=93 everything = from old screenplay formats, Word docs from the 1990s, audio formats = from the 80s/90s.
 
So maybe vote for legacy formats even if they don=E2=80=99t = help you personally.
 
Let us know if others = are critical to your workflow. You can vote for us to = add native PhotoJPEG support here: https://adobe-video.uservoice.com/forums/911311-after-effects/s= uggestions/33841261-photojpeg-quicktime-support
 
 
No, but thanks for the explanation. Makes sense. = I=E2=80=99ve never bothered with any of the lower quality Pro Res codecs = before but 422 LT seems to give good results initially and is about half = the size of my PhotoJpeg files. Sometimes things are =E2=80=9Ccritical = to people=E2=80=99s workflow=E2=80=9D only because they can=E2=80=99t be = bothered trying something new. 

= --Apple-Mail=_75DC9DAF-46B2-4220-9A17-FF9B9A6C9A35--