From: "Chris Zwar" Received: from mail-pl0-f51.google.com ([209.85.160.51] verified) by media-motion.tv (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.1.0) with ESMTPS id 6433527 for AE-List@media-motion.tv; Tue, 10 Apr 2018 04:54:34 +0200 Received: by mail-pl0-f51.google.com with SMTP id t20-v6so3616488ply.9 for ; Mon, 09 Apr 2018 19:59:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=chriszwar-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=from:mime-version:subject:date:references:to:in-reply-to:message-id; bh=+O4owVJDu22BZvVytMhYvCNafJJo+AbyZZLICHk8LJw=; b=km74DzFP8G6u7qklAlsiojihbmZpVgGefE3AD+3BYj6JPz2MWNBX+EHRZ7uJVwe621 GimQxGLbFXMt5GfubuW5y5mWaDiHhem+UOcMBByeo6Umg14C07hy67NKS8yDGy/WiEaA EHmAi0rPJZAMwlklHLEvM20fJbsq3AuvF823zmoAuAtIptYw1jeNeU29eaK0Kt8ffmV5 /uiWTLr1kmLYj17Z+bdkJD0bKgovzEoqC9uaXzC8mhfP5DD8JUmbTU5bZAXoY48hbSok UrrsfeR02JNVEOodkh7CqQ94Xl8YSjKxHCX1w9y9otlRY6ofZIouIe/joAo99WSB3nRX mbBQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:mime-version:subject:date:references:to :in-reply-to:message-id; bh=+O4owVJDu22BZvVytMhYvCNafJJo+AbyZZLICHk8LJw=; b=JnxoKFpE72EvC4o8cHqzbSY4YG7Hu439Owt1rb2PDeBixeEJqtCD6WzksXOF6uAzsT 57/i8VSmAi+5q/YZvaPFK1jTZK1H1KE44uW51bLtTWLq256R35HNnkXB8Mc7P0jByq0I iut3UiwqRABiQWCXk2TwpD/+t6Eq8ar1BNAUxBXn3rmZ+4U9tG5ajuvpzk+VE1bGXepX cVvWnb0vpwA4By4JiNUrwE7XlW9nx1X9Ovz73OuxGXmHVST6C2i2SZss+0mct6z5nKBC 3JG2kAmNdxs4AF9TUMeGdzvzyXWYYkhmOJ1Jfcs+wfSYWz1GzNQ4ilyT4Ycy/DJ5m2hC C2AQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AElRT7FBNwIUYIkTXLIrZXfwfw+IDfUKCWx6ckYOY4H2COQk2J/LoXbJ neEZrGIM/yPG2cDwqUM6C3Zn+X2Gtvk= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AIpwx4/lP3FYUDMOrV/Cblv91dF3TOuPiE1A+liEJ6KqU4BLaR1A1Mrej6DitYDaZQqDhhoIzJZ/ZA== X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:24c7:: with SMTP id l7-v6mr41022922plg.320.1523329190411; Mon, 09 Apr 2018 19:59:50 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: Received: from [192.168.0.6] ([101.164.85.130]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id e62sm3120127pfl.117.2018.04.09.19.59.48 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 09 Apr 2018 19:59:49 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_7782B96D-6B5E-43A8-87ED-D8D9C196A1E7" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.3 \(3445.6.18\)) Subject: Re: [AE] Unmult? Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2018 12:59:46 +1000 References: To: After Effects Mail List In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <9579AEF5-7247-444F-8874-32A32A471BB7@chriszwar.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.6.18) --Apple-Mail=_7782B96D-6B5E-43A8-87ED-D8D9C196A1E7 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Oh Ok. I haven=E2=80=99t looked at the AE preset, but I can see that = the problem is that it is using the shift channels to copy the lightness = value. This isn=E2=80=99t correct, the better way to do it is to use = the channel combiner plugin to copy the Max RGB value to the alpha = channel. Try using that instead of shift channels and see if you get different = results. =20 > On 10 Apr 2018, at 11:37 am, Roei Tzoref = wrote: >=20 > Thanks Chris, I have watched your tutorial a while back. this does not = solve the problem with Ae's unmult though... > as I mentioned, Ae's Unmult preset, which simply does 2 things: Shift = Channels with take alpha from lightness + remove color matting, is not a = good tool for unmulting since it has a discoloring after effect which = AFAIK cannot be avoided. >=20 > a simple test confirms this. examples here: > https://imgur.com/a/JoTb0 >=20 > AFAIK, the only way to unmult accurately in Ae is to use any of these = 3rd party plugins: Knoll Unmult, mekajik Unmult, VC Color Vibrance >=20 >=20 > On Tue, Apr 10, 2018 at 4:03 AM, Chris Zwar > wrote: > Actually it=E2=80=99s the opposite. If you simply copy the lightness = into the alpha then the RGB is preserved entirely, but this isn=E2=80=99t = accurate. You need to use the remove colour matting plugin as well, = which then takes the background colour into account and adjusts = everything accordingly. >=20 > This video demonstrates what the remove colour matting plugin does and = why it=E2=80=99s important: >=20 > https://www.provideocoalition.com/alpha-channels-good-bad-ugly/ = >=20 >=20 >> On 10 Apr 2018, at 10:57 am, Roei Tzoref > wrote: >>=20 >> Ae's Umult - Alpha from Lightness (Unmult) preset) unfortunately is = not optimal since it has a discoloring result. it does not preserve the = RGB information in it's entirety. I have seen not any way in Ae to = unmult natively without this discoloring effect. a simple test is taking = a black solid, adding a lens flare effect, then trying to unmult.=20 >>=20 >> another free option exists in the VC Color Vibrance plugin which is = free by video copilot:=20 >> = https://www.videocopilot.net/blog/2016/02/color-vibrance-update-v1-06/ = >>=20 >> simply change the color to 0 to have no effect in color, and change = "matte alpha" to "on" >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> On Tue, Apr 10, 2018 at 1:47 AM, Stephen van Vuuren = > wrote: >> And if you want to mess around with more creative kind of options, = Brian Moffit eons ago suggested a Shift Channels (Take Alpha from = Luminance) and muck about the a levels effect to boost/lower alpha to = taste. >>=20 >> -----Original Message----- >> From: After Effects Mail List > >> Sent: Monday, April 9, 2018 6:04 PM >> To: After Effects Mail List > >> Subject: Re: [AE] Unmult? >>=20 >> It=E2=80=99s not THAT cumbersome to do with standard AE tools=E2=80=A6 = first you use the channel combiner, set the first option to Max RGB and = the second to Lightness. Then use the =E2=80=9Cremove colour matting=E2=80= =9D plugin. The combination of those two effects is the same as unmult. >>=20 >> > On 9 Apr 2018, at 11:43 pm, Byron Nash > wrote: >> > >> > Looks like Red Giant put their unmult effect into legacy status and = they have one in Universe now? What's the current pulse on which unmult = effect to use? Is there another option these days? >>=20 >>=20 >> +---End of message---+ >> To unsubscribe send any message to > >>=20 >> +---End of message---+ >> To unsubscribe send any message to > >>=20 >=20 >=20 --Apple-Mail=_7782B96D-6B5E-43A8-87ED-D8D9C196A1E7 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Oh = Ok.  I haven=E2=80=99t looked at the AE preset, but I can see that = the problem is that it is using the shift channels to copy the lightness = value.  This isn=E2=80=99t correct, the better way to do it is to = use the channel combiner plugin to copy the Max RGB value to the alpha = channel.

Try using = that instead of shift channels and see if you get different results. =  

On 10 Apr 2018, at 11:37 am, Roei Tzoref = <AE-List@media-motion.tv> wrote:

Thanks Chris, I have watched your tutorial a = while back. this does not solve the problem with Ae's unmult = though...
as I mentioned, Ae's Unmult preset, which simply does 2 = things: Shift Channels with take alpha from lightness + remove color = matting, is not a good tool for unmulting since it has a discoloring = after effect which AFAIK cannot be avoided.

a simple test confirms this. examples here:
https://imgur.com/a/JoTb0

AFAIK, the only way to unmult accurately in Ae is to use any = of these 3rd party plugins: Knoll Unmult, mekajik Unmult, VC Color = Vibrance


On Tue, Apr 10, 2018 at 4:03 AM, = Chris Zwar <AE-List@media-motion.tv> wrote:
Actually it=E2=80=99s the opposite.  If you simply copy = the lightness into the alpha then the RGB is preserved entirely, but = this isn=E2=80=99t accurate.  You need to use the remove colour = matting plugin as well, which then takes the background colour into = account and adjusts everything accordingly.

This video demonstrates what the remove = colour matting plugin does and why it=E2=80=99s important:

https://www.provideocoalition.com/alpha-channels-good-bad-ugly/


On 10 Apr 2018, at 10:57 am, Roei Tzoref = <AE-List@media-motion.tv> wrote:

Ae's Umult - Alpha from Lightness = (Unmult) preset) unfortunately is not optimal since it has a discoloring = result. it does not preserve the RGB information in it's entirety. I = have seen not any way in Ae to unmult natively without this discoloring = effect. a simple test is taking a black solid, adding a lens flare = effect, then trying to unmult. 

another free option exists in the VC = Color Vibrance plugin which is free by video copilot: 
https://www.videocopilot.net/blog/2016/02/color-vibrance-update-v1-06/

simply change the color to 0 to have no = effect in color, and change "matte alpha" to "on"


On Tue, = Apr 10, 2018 at 1:47 AM, Stephen van Vuuren <AE-List@media-motion.tv> = wrote:
And if you want to = mess around with more creative kind of options, Brian Moffit eons ago = suggested a Shift Channels (Take Alpha from Luminance) and muck about = the a levels effect to boost/lower alpha to taste.

-----Original Message-----
From: After Effects Mail List <AE-List@media-motion.tv>
Sent: Monday, April 9, 2018 6:04 PM
To: After Effects Mail List <AE-List@media-motion.tv>
Subject: Re: [AE] Unmult?

It=E2=80=99s not THAT cumbersome to do with standard AE tools=E2=80=A6 = first you use the channel combiner, set the first option to Max RGB and = the second to Lightness. Then use the =E2=80=9Cremove colour matting=E2=80= =9D plugin.  The combination of those two effects is the same as = unmult.

> On 9 Apr 2018, at 11:43 pm, Byron Nash <AE-List@media-motion.tv> wrote:
>
> Looks like Red Giant put their unmult effect into legacy status and = they have one in Universe now? What's the current pulse on which unmult = effect to use? Is there another option these days?


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