From: "Byron Nash" Received: from mail-qt0-f176.google.com ([209.85.216.176] verified) by media-motion.tv (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.1.0) with ESMTPS id 6433951 for AE-List@media-motion.tv; Tue, 10 Apr 2018 15:10:21 +0200 Received: by mail-qt0-f176.google.com with SMTP id v11so13151019qtj.6 for ; Tue, 10 Apr 2018 06:15:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=We2RaqIhfx+iABlkd33VpXJclC/TMDHIsGkNYBj/Mug=; b=Ztb0HoYcD4Ol1Uqr2qxap0vbFCGqqe9tNvBCSWzCvB4JUqydE1krMHNg+eo3JpCcfE bLSl7rPi9kjM7cPFJbywS83PCHtvsle36WeGw1rpZ2VVHpfVWHWkfwA9cOMNwENrp9kR qzHFQguu1uUL35jyZh56IaWowGlhLB1voaC6USI141kg9nTURGr7STw/XeqaWY8qYGc6 NznefqmvRpHE2c8qa6rtOJseMGQMeKaW423xSyX03z8cKIbmCuLku+ZMLUil0jhcANVO j0r5YrhY6Pi+zd7KBnQ+wUfLlOKf6gzU1pKyy3uY6tjr2z5x9CwDyE7euD1RlTFf4eYE AOSA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=We2RaqIhfx+iABlkd33VpXJclC/TMDHIsGkNYBj/Mug=; b=h9ahAoP7A7TzWndebosqEzYYZ6OVpM/Rp7pXyD5f06iNMJN3HyfI+oL7qYVixdE1cI 88V6zQqmSCnMnLDw0fcvTbl8hb4ICoIbu1uJ6FmvrJKolzQNf0ze1cLA/6c5/OADeLbx S2LmmrlvFzWLeqn6b6ONjYLw6r7QaRQlmf5anOK45fTfhu9VVZu3AYXHa4TBTSC66+/m ilbJoEYe88cVFUqyVNZS79v0QCfAhaibHuXMgdIT0ETJ9e+DzVz8mCoeiV6TzU1mfkEk pcayuauNLToTpJcU3tMvyx0fPwBlr1dHBZAeQBzd4IfNrlrYkTqNK8qEcU850K2MVdht wRqg== X-Gm-Message-State: ALQs6tAwxnqTtF49zyJtERFVPsTILxftTkY6WMsZPw4+10U7PycL1kiv sN0KIcGP3EeVDPIGB2NX5vC4pPje1xinKsaHCTw= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AIpwx4+QAgyCznTUvOWHfPBG56spsIOf7rrlow1eRPaRoywKg3ZCytHxZL6M4DfhYhUr7c/Fw7MR1mUGbs+RukUX43g= X-Received: by 10.237.38.231 with SMTP id q94mr585986qtd.60.1523366139433; Tue, 10 Apr 2018 06:15:39 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2018 13:15:28 +0000 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [AE] Unmult? To: After Effects Mail List Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="94eb2c067eb69a95d005697e5185" --94eb2c067eb69a95d005697e5185 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This is a spot on discussion. Nice information everyone. I'd like to see this level of depth more often on this list! :-) I do need 16bit for this project. So, I'll look harder at the suggestion Robert made. On Tue, Apr 10, 2018 at 7:31 AM Robert Kjettrup wrote: > The Channel Combiner is unfortunately still only 8bit and will disregard > any masks on a layer, so if you want to do an accurate unmult with higher > bitdepth with native AE tools then you need to first in a precomp do your > own Max RGB. > Seperating the footage in 3 layers, shifting each color channel into each > of the other channel to get a full Red a full Green and a full Blue, then > comp them with the Lighten blend mode and you will get the MaxRGB for tha= t > image. This precomp you use as an secondary input in a Set Matte effect o= n > the original image and set "use for matte" to "luminance", and end with > using Remove Color Matting... So much easier if we had a simple native > Unmult effect :-/ > > to make it a bit simpler to understand the steps above you can download a= n > .aep file here: > https://adobe.ly/2JBrw30 > > Robert > > > 2018-04-10 10:35 GMT+02:00 Chris Zwar : > >> Thanks for trying and sharing! >> >> >> On 10 Apr 2018, at 6:32 pm, Roei Tzoref wrote: >> >> Great. Channel Combiner followed by remove color matting give the precis= e >> result. >> >> Thanks Chris. one more plugin I don't have to use :) >> >> On Tue, Apr 10, 2018 at 5:59 AM, Chris Zwar >> wrote: >> >>> Oh Ok. I haven=E2=80=99t looked at the AE preset, but I can see that t= he >>> problem is that it is using the shift channels to copy the lightness >>> value. This isn=E2=80=99t correct, the better way to do it is to use t= he channel >>> combiner plugin to copy the Max RGB value to the alpha channel. >>> >>> Try using that instead of shift channels and see if you get different >>> results. >>> >>> >>> On 10 Apr 2018, at 11:37 am, Roei Tzoref >>> wrote: >>> >>> Thanks Chris, I have watched your tutorial a while back. this does not >>> solve the problem with Ae's unmult though... >>> as I mentioned, Ae's Unmult preset, which simply does 2 things: Shift >>> Channels with take alpha from lightness + remove color matting, is not = a >>> good tool for unmulting since it has a discoloring after effect which A= FAIK >>> cannot be avoided. >>> >>> a simple test confirms this. examples here: >>> https://imgur.com/a/JoTb0 >>> >>> AFAIK, the only way to unmult accurately in Ae is to use any of these >>> 3rd party plugins: Knoll Unmult, mekajik Unmult, VC Color Vibrance >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Apr 10, 2018 at 4:03 AM, Chris Zwar >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Actually it=E2=80=99s the opposite. If you simply copy the lightness = into the >>>> alpha then the RGB is preserved entirely, but this isn=E2=80=99t accur= ate. You >>>> need to use the remove colour matting plugin as well, which then takes= the >>>> background colour into account and adjusts everything accordingly. >>>> >>>> This video demonstrates what the remove colour matting plugin does and >>>> why it=E2=80=99s important: >>>> >>>> https://www.provideocoalition.com/alpha-channels-good-bad-ugly/ >>>> >>>> >>>> On 10 Apr 2018, at 10:57 am, Roei Tzoref >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Ae's Umult - Alpha from Lightness (Unmult) preset) unfortunately is no= t >>>> optimal since it has a discoloring result. it does not preserve the RG= B >>>> information in it's entirety. I have seen not any way in Ae to unmult >>>> natively without this discoloring effect. a simple test is taking a bl= ack >>>> solid, adding a lens flare effect, then trying to unmult. >>>> >>>> another free option exists in the VC Color Vibrance plugin which is >>>> free by video copilot: >>>> https://www.videocopilot.net/blog/2016/02/color-vibrance-update-v1-06/ >>>> >>>> simply change the color to 0 to have no effect in color, and change >>>> "matte alpha" to "on" >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tue, Apr 10, 2018 at 1:47 AM, Stephen van Vuuren < >>>> AE-List@media-motion.tv> wrote: >>>> >>>>> And if you want to mess around with more creative kind of options, >>>>> Brian Moffit eons ago suggested a Shift Channels (Take Alpha from >>>>> Luminance) and muck about the a levels effect to boost/lower alpha to= taste. >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: After Effects Mail List >>>>> Sent: Monday, April 9, 2018 6:04 PM >>>>> To: After Effects Mail List >>>>> Subject: Re: [AE] Unmult? >>>>> >>>>> It=E2=80=99s not THAT cumbersome to do with standard AE tools=E2=80= =A6 first you use >>>>> the channel combiner, set the first option to Max RGB and the second = to >>>>> Lightness. Then use the =E2=80=9Cremove colour matting=E2=80=9D plugi= n. The combination of >>>>> those two effects is the same as unmult. >>>>> >>>>> > On 9 Apr 2018, at 11:43 pm, Byron Nash >>>>> wrote: >>>>> > >>>>> > Looks like Red Giant put their unmult effect into legacy status and >>>>> they have one in Universe now? What's the current pulse on which unmu= lt >>>>> effect to use? Is there another option these days? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> +---End of message---+ >>>>> To unsubscribe send any message to >>>>> >>>>> +---End of message---+ >>>>> To unsubscribe send any message to >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> > --94eb2c067eb69a95d005697e5185 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
This is a spot on discussion. Nice information everyone. I= 'd like to see this level of depth more often on this list!=C2=A0 =C2= =A0:-)=C2=A0

I do need 16bit for this project. So, I'= ;ll look harder at the suggestion Robert made.=C2=A0

On Tue, Apr 10, 2018 at 7:31 AM Robert= Kjettrup <AE-List@media-moti= on.tv> wrote:
The Channel Combiner is unfortunately still only 8bit and will disregard= any masks on a layer, so if you want to do an accurate unmult with higher = bitdepth with native AE tools then you need to first in a precomp do your o= wn Max RGB.=C2=A0
Seperating the footage in 3 layers, shifting each col= or channel into each of the other channel to get a full Red a full Green an= d a full Blue, then comp them with the Lighten blend mode and you will get = the MaxRGB for that image. This precomp you use as an secondary input in a = Set Matte effect on the original image and set "use for matte" to= "luminance", and end with using Remove Color Matting... So much = easier if we had a simple native Unmult effect :-/

to make it a bit simpler to understand the steps above you can download an= .aep file here:
Robert

2018-04-10 10:35 GMT+02:00 Chris Zwar <= AE-List@media-motion.tv>:
<= div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space">Thanks for = trying and sharing!

On 10 Apr 2018, at 6:32 pm, Roei Tzoref <= ;AE-List@media= -motion.tv> wrote:

Great. Chann= el Combiner followed by remove color matting give the precise result.
=

Thanks Chris. one more plugin I don't have to use := )

On Tue, Ap= r 10, 2018 at 5:59 AM, Chris Zwar <AE-List@media-motion.tv> wrote:
Oh Ok.=C2=A0 I haven=E2=80=99t looked = at the AE preset, but I can see that the problem is that it is using the sh= ift channels to copy the lightness value.=C2=A0 This isn=E2=80=99t correct,= the better way to do it is to use the channel combiner plugin to copy the = Max RGB value to the alpha channel.

Try using that inste= ad of shift channels and see if you get different results. =C2=A0
<= br>

On 10 Apr 2018, at 11:37 am, Roe= i Tzoref <A= E-List@media-motion.tv> wrote:

Thanks Chris, I have watched you= r tutorial a while back. this does not solve the problem with Ae's unmu= lt though...
as I mentioned, Ae&= #39;s Unmult preset, which simply does 2 things: Shift Channels with take a= lpha from lightness + remove color matting, is not a good tool for unmultin= g since it has a discoloring after effect which AFAIK cannot be avoided.

a simple test confirms this.=C2=A0examples here:

AFAIK, the only way to unmult accurately in Ae is to use = any of these 3rd party plugins: Knoll Unmult,=C2=A0mekajik Unmult, VC Color= Vibrance


On Tue, Apr 10, 2018 at 4:03 AM, Chris= Zwar <AE-List@media-motion.tv> wrote:
Actually it=E2=80=99s the opposite.=C2=A0 If you simply copy the l= ightness into the alpha then the RGB is preserved entirely, but this isn=E2= =80=99t accurate.=C2=A0 You need to use the remove colour matting plugin as= well, which then takes the background colour into account and adjusts ever= ything accordingly.

This video demonstrates what the rem= ove colour matting plugin does and why it=E2=80=99s important:


On 10 Apr 2018, at 10:57 am, = Roei Tzoref <AE-List@media-motion.tv> wrote:

Ae's Umul= t - Alpha from Lightness (Unmult) preset) unfortunately is not optimal sinc= e it has a discoloring result. it does not preserve the RGB information in = it's entirety. I have seen not any way in Ae to unmult natively without= this discoloring effect. a simple test is taking a black solid, adding a l= ens flare effect, then trying to unmult.=C2=A0

another f= ree option exists in the VC Color Vibrance plugin which is free by video co= pilot:=C2=A0

simply change the color to 0 to have no effect in color, and change &quo= t;matte alpha" to "on"



On Tue, Apr 1= 0, 2018 at 1:47 AM, Stephen van Vuuren <AE-List@media-motion.tv&= gt; wrote:
And if you want to mess= around with more creative kind of options, Brian Moffit eons ago suggested= a Shift Channels (Take Alpha from Luminance) and muck about the a levels e= ffect to boost/lower alpha to taste.

-----Original Message-----
From: After Effects Mail List <AE-List@media-motion.tv>
Sent: Monday, April 9, 2018 6:04 PM
To: After Effects Mail List <AE-List@media-motion.tv>
Subject: Re: [AE] Unmult?

It=E2=80=99s not THAT cumbersome to do with standard AE tools=E2=80=A6 firs= t you use the channel combiner, set the first option to Max RGB and the sec= ond to Lightness. Then use the =E2=80=9Cremove colour matting=E2=80=9D plug= in.=C2=A0 The combination of those two effects is the same as unmult.

> On 9 Apr 2018, at 11:43 pm, Byron Nash <AE-List@media-motion.tv> wrote: >
> Looks like Red Giant put their unmult effect into legacy status and th= ey have one in Universe now? What's the current pulse on which unmult e= ffect to use? Is there another option these days?


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