From: "Roei Tzoref" Received: from mail-io0-f174.google.com ([209.85.223.174] verified) by media-motion.tv (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.1.0) with ESMTPS id 6433962 for AE-List@media-motion.tv; Tue, 10 Apr 2018 15:23:58 +0200 Received: by mail-io0-f174.google.com with SMTP id 141so13629877iou.12 for ; Tue, 10 Apr 2018 06:29:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=iY1BbHkakNEsSUuQ41h0od+MjTFQdLE0Jnk8JyIokq0=; b=k1f3JZEVh46Nr/Uz+ao4/q3PXDJrN7OEuBSLqZVASoGK7w/3H9fhp22LjHbHwSQ8Ok i4NDQUdCpKBzeCN75klyritCcy5C7Keo9fuZX2S28aUpyS3HngFSTUhgggB8ENUvNpTa DrjUcOSVqQLO7I0Cc8/wMY4B2xeKuHxF2RvQqPhOZRwROmzr8qpUfZAXNzQAbDKE+YPZ MLtxjqngGZ/asAvFb30J8J8c6+69r8fBlOwKTFwMsdIjZpVZEL5NI7oEuBwC7vel2lNt Rn9WQPu5wArIPMhLhgPrmxbcZUn5k2u+1aR1ciDBAphN/8p4o4kvwHLivZM1olUss48V 3ESA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=iY1BbHkakNEsSUuQ41h0od+MjTFQdLE0Jnk8JyIokq0=; b=P27cCXojYc5bdk3o8xLMxGS708gBEgazTBuaXpo7ECRoyuOvFn0a1kxwMEeLyBYUSf Q9aS/UytXOiKxYucDRCAgDcpsZYcR6jU+dSBamOF3R6/pr4H35lj6SIm4f2HVuLQXPUD mYUdYllGD8mhvlxtNliuBL3/E6jK9gXpqkwvbaQFhgvW0rr8910pSwotcTJGsPuesQfn QOfDSdsWxudYvr6jmzPoDK7AsQQ/CTo0lYROvtu+xz5uGXdFP5rjWdPYOi1ojPiMfzK3 cO7vnKszgVBP03skY9h00Hsk5Zz56L4EOhe9TUS8adyDZqWLX1oHHlFKu5Nbs4l7aXjm k7xA== X-Gm-Message-State: ALQs6tDc/7vSMXDJCPxy1rbrNw7vXOm7QgKYTyxh5KIEOzvbjbW0nGAI lUL3wnrb1kgJA2NCNqUMtPVz7dYC1gX+CyrXKQg= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AIpwx48CXiGaSk4ZSm002fdtZrrruD01IEsI23Wf58YepRM0lwKbavxiBOu6xhrgDnDPGVeGPrKayy1he4w0bgW7sDQ= X-Received: by 10.107.27.132 with SMTP id b126mr466424iob.195.1523366955718; Tue, 10 Apr 2018 06:29:15 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.2.59.96 with HTTP; Tue, 10 Apr 2018 06:28:35 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2018 16:28:35 +0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [AE] Unmult? To: After Effects Mail List Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a113fd746421f6205697e820d" --001a113fd746421f6205697e820d Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks for the headsup Robert. so it's back to 3rd party plugins again I guess, natively it's too complicated :) On Tue, Apr 10, 2018 at 4:15 PM, Byron Nash wrote= : > This is a spot on discussion. Nice information everyone. I'd like to see > this level of depth more often on this list! :-) > > I do need 16bit for this project. So, I'll look harder at the suggestion > Robert made. > > On Tue, Apr 10, 2018 at 7:31 AM Robert Kjettrup > wrote: > >> The Channel Combiner is unfortunately still only 8bit and will disregard >> any masks on a layer, so if you want to do an accurate unmult with highe= r >> bitdepth with native AE tools then you need to first in a precomp do you= r >> own Max RGB. >> Seperating the footage in 3 layers, shifting each color channel into eac= h >> of the other channel to get a full Red a full Green and a full Blue, the= n >> comp them with the Lighten blend mode and you will get the MaxRGB for th= at >> image. This precomp you use as an secondary input in a Set Matte effect = on >> the original image and set "use for matte" to "luminance", and end with >> using Remove Color Matting... So much easier if we had a simple native >> Unmult effect :-/ >> >> to make it a bit simpler to understand the steps above you can download >> an .aep file here: >> https://adobe.ly/2JBrw30 >> >> Robert >> >> >> 2018-04-10 10:35 GMT+02:00 Chris Zwar : >> >>> Thanks for trying and sharing! >>> >>> >>> On 10 Apr 2018, at 6:32 pm, Roei Tzoref wrote= : >>> >>> Great. Channel Combiner followed by remove color matting give the >>> precise result. >>> >>> Thanks Chris. one more plugin I don't have to use :) >>> >>> On Tue, Apr 10, 2018 at 5:59 AM, Chris Zwar >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Oh Ok. I haven=E2=80=99t looked at the AE preset, but I can see that = the >>>> problem is that it is using the shift channels to copy the lightness >>>> value. This isn=E2=80=99t correct, the better way to do it is to use = the channel >>>> combiner plugin to copy the Max RGB value to the alpha channel. >>>> >>>> Try using that instead of shift channels and see if you get different >>>> results. >>>> >>>> >>>> On 10 Apr 2018, at 11:37 am, Roei Tzoref >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Thanks Chris, I have watched your tutorial a while back. this does not >>>> solve the problem with Ae's unmult though... >>>> as I mentioned, Ae's Unmult preset, which simply does 2 things: Shift >>>> Channels with take alpha from lightness + remove color matting, is not= a >>>> good tool for unmulting since it has a discoloring after effect which = AFAIK >>>> cannot be avoided. >>>> >>>> a simple test confirms this. examples here: >>>> https://imgur.com/a/JoTb0 >>>> >>>> AFAIK, the only way to unmult accurately in Ae is to use any of these >>>> 3rd party plugins: Knoll Unmult, mekajik Unmult, VC Color Vibrance >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tue, Apr 10, 2018 at 4:03 AM, Chris Zwar >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Actually it=E2=80=99s the opposite. If you simply copy the lightness= into the >>>>> alpha then the RGB is preserved entirely, but this isn=E2=80=99t accu= rate. You >>>>> need to use the remove colour matting plugin as well, which then take= s the >>>>> background colour into account and adjusts everything accordingly. >>>>> >>>>> This video demonstrates what the remove colour matting plugin does an= d >>>>> why it=E2=80=99s important: >>>>> >>>>> https://www.provideocoalition.com/alpha-channels-good-bad-ugly/ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 10 Apr 2018, at 10:57 am, Roei Tzoref >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Ae's Umult - Alpha from Lightness (Unmult) preset) unfortunately is >>>>> not optimal since it has a discoloring result. it does not preserve t= he RGB >>>>> information in it's entirety. I have seen not any way in Ae to unmult >>>>> natively without this discoloring effect. a simple test is taking a b= lack >>>>> solid, adding a lens flare effect, then trying to unmult. >>>>> >>>>> another free option exists in the VC Color Vibrance plugin which is >>>>> free by video copilot: >>>>> https://www.videocopilot.net/blog/2016/02/color-vibrance-update-v1-06= / >>>>> >>>>> simply change the color to 0 to have no effect in color, and change >>>>> "matte alpha" to "on" >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Apr 10, 2018 at 1:47 AM, Stephen van Vuuren < >>>>> AE-List@media-motion.tv> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> And if you want to mess around with more creative kind of options, >>>>>> Brian Moffit eons ago suggested a Shift Channels (Take Alpha from >>>>>> Luminance) and muck about the a levels effect to boost/lower alpha t= o taste. >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: After Effects Mail List >>>>>> Sent: Monday, April 9, 2018 6:04 PM >>>>>> To: After Effects Mail List >>>>>> Subject: Re: [AE] Unmult? >>>>>> >>>>>> It=E2=80=99s not THAT cumbersome to do with standard AE tools=E2=80= =A6 first you use >>>>>> the channel combiner, set the first option to Max RGB and the second= to >>>>>> Lightness. Then use the =E2=80=9Cremove colour matting=E2=80=9D plug= in. The combination of >>>>>> those two effects is the same as unmult. >>>>>> >>>>>> > On 9 Apr 2018, at 11:43 pm, Byron Nash >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Looks like Red Giant put their unmult effect into legacy status an= d >>>>>> they have one in Universe now? What's the current pulse on which unm= ult >>>>>> effect to use? Is there another option these days? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> +---End of message---+ >>>>>> To unsubscribe send any message to >>>>>> >>>>>> +---End of message---+ >>>>>> To unsubscribe send any message to >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> --001a113fd746421f6205697e820d Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks for the headsup Robert. so it's back to 3rd par= ty plugins again I guess, natively it's too complicated :)

On Tue, Apr 10, 2018 at = 4:15 PM, Byron Nash <AE-List@media-motion.tv> wrote:
This is a spot on discuss= ion. Nice information everyone. I'd like to see this level of depth mor= e often on this list!=C2=A0 =C2=A0:-)=C2=A0

I do need 16= bit for this project. So, I'll look harder at the suggestion Robert mad= e.=C2=A0

On Tue, Apr 10, 2018 at 7:31 AM Robert Kj= ettrup <AE-= List@media-motion.tv> wrote:
The Channel Combiner is unfortunately still only 8bit and= will disregard any masks on a layer, so if you want to do an accurate unmu= lt with higher bitdepth with native AE tools then you need to first in a pr= ecomp do your own Max RGB.=C2=A0
Seperating the footage in 3 layers, sh= ifting each color channel into each of the other channel to get a full Red = a full Green and a full Blue, then comp them with the Lighten blend mode an= d you will get the MaxRGB for that image. This precomp you use as an second= ary input in a Set Matte effect on the original image and set "use for= matte" to "luminance", and end with using Remove Color Matt= ing... So much easier if we had a simple native Unmult effect :-/

to make it a bit simpler to understand the steps above you = can download an .aep file here:

Robert


2018-04-10 10:35 GMT+02:00 Chr= is Zwar <AE-List@media-motion.tv>:
Thanks for trying and sharing!


On 10= Apr 2018, at 6:32 pm, Roei Tzoref <AE-List@media-motion.tv> wrote:

Great. Channel Combiner fol= lowed by remove color matting give the precise result.

=
Thanks Chris. one more plugin I don't have to use :)

On Tue, Apr 10, 2018 at 5= :59 AM, Chris Zwar <AE-List@media-motion.tv> wrote:
Oh Ok.=C2=A0 I haven=E2=80=99t looked at the AE prese= t, but I can see that the problem is that it is using the shift channels to= copy the lightness value.=C2=A0 This isn=E2=80=99t correct, the better way= to do it is to use the channel combiner plugin to copy the Max RGB value t= o the alpha channel.

Try using that instead of shift cha= nnels and see if you get different results. =C2=A0


On 10 Apr 2018, at 11:37 = am, Roei Tzoref <AE-List@media-motion.tv> wrote:

Tha= nks Chris, I have watched your tutorial a while back. this does not solve t= he problem with Ae's unmult though...
as I mentioned, Ae's Unmult preset, which simply does 2 thing= s: Shift Channels with take alpha from lightness + remove color matting, is= not a good tool for unmulting since it has a discoloring after effect whic= h AFAIK cannot be avoided.

a simple test conf= irms this.=C2=A0examples here:
<= br>
AFAIK, the only way to unmul= t accurately in Ae is to use any of these 3rd party plugins: Knoll Unmult,= =C2=A0mekajik Unmult, VC Color Vibrance


On Tue, = Apr 10, 2018 at 4:03 AM, Chris Zwar <AE-List@media-motion.tv>= wrote:
Actually it=E2=80=99s the opposite.= =C2=A0 If you simply copy the lightness into the alpha then the RGB is pres= erved entirely, but this isn=E2=80=99t accurate.=C2=A0 You need to use the = remove colour matting plugin as well, which then takes the background colou= r into account and adjusts everything accordingly.

This = video demonstrates what the remove colour matting plugin does and why it=E2= =80=99s important:


<= br>
On 10 Apr 2018, at 10:57 am, Roei Tzoref = <AE-List@me= dia-motion.tv> wrote:

Ae&= #39;s Umult - Alpha from Lightness (Unmult) preset) unfortunately is not op= timal since it has a discoloring result. it does not preserve the RGB infor= mation in it's entirety. I have seen not any way in Ae to unmult native= ly without this discoloring effect. a simple test is taking a black solid, = adding a lens flare effect, then trying to unmult.=C2=A0

another free option exists in the VC Color Vibrance plugin which is free b= y video copilot:=C2=A0
https://www.vide= ocopilot.net/blog/2016/02/color-vibrance-update-v1-06/

simply change the color to 0 to have no effect in co= lor, and change "matte alpha" to "on"



On Tue, Apr 10, 2018 at 1:47 AM, Stephen van Vuuren <AE-List@= media-motion.tv> wrote:
And= if you want to mess around with more creative kind of options, Brian Moffi= t eons ago suggested a Shift Channels (Take Alpha from Luminance) and muck = about the a levels effect to boost/lower alpha to taste.

-----Original Message-----
From: After Effects Mail List <AE-List@media-motion.tv>
Sent: Monday, April 9, 2018 6:04 PM
To: After Effects Mail List <AE-List@media-motion.tv>
Subject: Re: [AE] Unmult?

It=E2=80=99s not THAT cumbersome to do with standard AE tools=E2=80=A6 firs= t you use the channel combiner, set the first option to Max RGB and the sec= ond to Lightness. Then use the =E2=80=9Cremove colour matting=E2=80=9D plug= in.=C2=A0 The combination of those two effects is the same as unmult.

> On 9 Apr 2018, at 11:43 pm, Byron Nash <AE-List@media-motion.tv> wrote: >
> Looks like Red Giant put their unmult effect into legacy status and th= ey have one in Universe now? What's the current pulse on which unmult e= ffect to use? Is there another option these days?


+---End of message---+
To unsubscribe send any message to <ae-list-off@media-motion.tv>

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