From: "Brian Maffitt" Received: from mail-oi0-f51.google.com ([209.85.218.51] verified) by media-motion.tv (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.1.0) with ESMTPS id 6433970 for AE-List@media-motion.tv; Tue, 10 Apr 2018 16:25:56 +0200 Received: by mail-oi0-f51.google.com with SMTP id f63-v6so11335273oic.4 for ; Tue, 10 Apr 2018 07:31:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=totaltraining.com; s=google; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=69Vr6E6sJDs0yhJqHqUr0LgH5oSoItRVoQWZKu1okiw=; b=C44MJJ9S6JOB/HNahqqwFPVbUXboYKI+AL/nDpyDxNbXGNHKUzi0dZGFWevEtXhW5c udKJKvBoMm+qn8ruP5q5eiX2nO/zhWKdHT5pvWDkOHUhgSUTLNFqLkuUicIreJEXnWcf MWaOyEVUj9x5afFPFxOKFEV4SpWA2jEqlXABA= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=69Vr6E6sJDs0yhJqHqUr0LgH5oSoItRVoQWZKu1okiw=; b=JTrBfxtZPjlRFrtBv1dPZ1VIJ2QLkNntaLA/LBLLwNOfqzcq61/BxM4F2UfgRIp1Jh Tp21qHNE1A7+UQE+0vmSqf4uYJmdQg33Q6zTzWy3P9SOuaaFI+coVSwFF0H7+tRXnsbW BGoTX4uaY9/kgvYmz2SFWMMHPo0Ucf4APdCOYZ1viBNYDRw9vljALBI3Lx/nnmKNkBUp Kejin7ydpa8S/pohJ9d+uhQH2mLFMb3gHbqdhD4HMqzDvmRTIVf7qQcYUV5aUxjjIwtD zf6C1MegbaV7qmSyoBtit82b1pE6ADB3VATEL+YdG2FIFsOEKqJnrB3L3VqQ8L/83e/w kBdg== X-Gm-Message-State: ALQs6tDj8nwiCVwl5TOaNwIk0R1/pgMWaxCl9nqLfW7XEBwQzil39BAL mv5z+Mr0SYGYsQK0QO7kPEnDc0ajaT+HV6M4eoohMA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AIpwx4+XmBljj0yGfnE41yOrqxYzfZkkv2mPy+XsT+nippLEvODHUmdWI0qQhCSdtTaavWii1AP5sv1ea14CYDkJX4U= X-Received: by 2002:aca:5784:: with SMTP id l126-v6mr445932oib.167.1523370674455; Tue, 10 Apr 2018 07:31:14 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.74.173.79 with HTTP; Tue, 10 Apr 2018 07:31:13 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2018 10:31:13 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [AE] Unmult? To: After Effects Mail List Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000ea09b505697f5ff3" --000000000000ea09b505697f5ff3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Using channel combiner on a discrete layer and then using that as a track matte on your original footage should allow you to keep the color values in 16 or 32 bit, even while the matte is restricted to 8 bit. A couple more steps, but doable. On Tue, Apr 10, 2018 at 9:28 AM, Roei Tzoref wrote: > Thanks for the headsup Robert. so it's back to 3rd party plugins again I > guess, natively it's too complicated :) > > On Tue, Apr 10, 2018 at 4:15 PM, Byron Nash > wrote: > >> This is a spot on discussion. Nice information everyone. I'd like to see >> this level of depth more often on this list! :-) >> >> I do need 16bit for this project. So, I'll look harder at the suggestion >> Robert made. >> >> On Tue, Apr 10, 2018 at 7:31 AM Robert Kjettrup >> wrote: >> >>> The Channel Combiner is unfortunately still only 8bit and will disregar= d >>> any masks on a layer, so if you want to do an accurate unmult with high= er >>> bitdepth with native AE tools then you need to first in a precomp do yo= ur >>> own Max RGB. >>> Seperating the footage in 3 layers, shifting each color channel into >>> each of the other channel to get a full Red a full Green and a full Blu= e, >>> then comp them with the Lighten blend mode and you will get the MaxRGB = for >>> that image. This precomp you use as an secondary input in a Set Matte >>> effect on the original image and set "use for matte" to "luminance", an= d >>> end with using Remove Color Matting... So much easier if we had a simpl= e >>> native Unmult effect :-/ >>> >>> to make it a bit simpler to understand the steps above you can download >>> an .aep file here: >>> https://adobe.ly/2JBrw30 >>> >>> Robert >>> >>> >>> 2018-04-10 10:35 GMT+02:00 Chris Zwar : >>> >>>> Thanks for trying and sharing! >>>> >>>> >>>> On 10 Apr 2018, at 6:32 pm, Roei Tzoref >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Great. Channel Combiner followed by remove color matting give the >>>> precise result. >>>> >>>> Thanks Chris. one more plugin I don't have to use :) >>>> >>>> On Tue, Apr 10, 2018 at 5:59 AM, Chris Zwar >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Oh Ok. I haven=E2=80=99t looked at the AE preset, but I can see that= the >>>>> problem is that it is using the shift channels to copy the lightness >>>>> value. This isn=E2=80=99t correct, the better way to do it is to use= the channel >>>>> combiner plugin to copy the Max RGB value to the alpha channel. >>>>> >>>>> Try using that instead of shift channels and see if you get different >>>>> results. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 10 Apr 2018, at 11:37 am, Roei Tzoref >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Thanks Chris, I have watched your tutorial a while back. this does no= t >>>>> solve the problem with Ae's unmult though... >>>>> as I mentioned, Ae's Unmult preset, which simply does 2 things: Shift >>>>> Channels with take alpha from lightness + remove color matting, is no= t a >>>>> good tool for unmulting since it has a discoloring after effect which= AFAIK >>>>> cannot be avoided. >>>>> >>>>> a simple test confirms this. examples here: >>>>> https://imgur.com/a/JoTb0 >>>>> >>>>> AFAIK, the only way to unmult accurately in Ae is to use any of these >>>>> 3rd party plugins: Knoll Unmult, mekajik Unmult, VC Color Vibrance >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Apr 10, 2018 at 4:03 AM, Chris Zwar >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Actually it=E2=80=99s the opposite. If you simply copy the lightnes= s into >>>>>> the alpha then the RGB is preserved entirely, but this isn=E2=80=99t= accurate. You >>>>>> need to use the remove colour matting plugin as well, which then tak= es the >>>>>> background colour into account and adjusts everything accordingly. >>>>>> >>>>>> This video demonstrates what the remove colour matting plugin does >>>>>> and why it=E2=80=99s important: >>>>>> >>>>>> https://www.provideocoalition.com/alpha-channels-good-bad-ugly/ >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 10 Apr 2018, at 10:57 am, Roei Tzoref >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Ae's Umult - Alpha from Lightness (Unmult) preset) unfortunately is >>>>>> not optimal since it has a discoloring result. it does not preserve = the RGB >>>>>> information in it's entirety. I have seen not any way in Ae to unmul= t >>>>>> natively without this discoloring effect. a simple test is taking a = black >>>>>> solid, adding a lens flare effect, then trying to unmult. >>>>>> >>>>>> another free option exists in the VC Color Vibrance plugin which is >>>>>> free by video copilot: >>>>>> https://www.videocopilot.net/blog/2016/02/color-vibrance-upd >>>>>> ate-v1-06/ >>>>>> >>>>>> simply change the color to 0 to have no effect in color, and change >>>>>> "matte alpha" to "on" >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tue, Apr 10, 2018 at 1:47 AM, Stephen van Vuuren < >>>>>> AE-List@media-motion.tv> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> And if you want to mess around with more creative kind of options, >>>>>>> Brian Moffit eons ago suggested a Shift Channels (Take Alpha from >>>>>>> Luminance) and muck about the a levels effect to boost/lower alpha = to taste. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: After Effects Mail List >>>>>>> Sent: Monday, April 9, 2018 6:04 PM >>>>>>> To: After Effects Mail List >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AE] Unmult? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It=E2=80=99s not THAT cumbersome to do with standard AE tools=E2=80= =A6 first you use >>>>>>> the channel combiner, set the first option to Max RGB and the secon= d to >>>>>>> Lightness. Then use the =E2=80=9Cremove colour matting=E2=80=9D plu= gin. The combination of >>>>>>> those two effects is the same as unmult. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> > On 9 Apr 2018, at 11:43 pm, Byron Nash >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > Looks like Red Giant put their unmult effect into legacy status >>>>>>> and they have one in Universe now? What's the current pulse on whic= h unmult >>>>>>> effect to use? Is there another option these days? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> +---End of message---+ >>>>>>> To unsubscribe send any message to >>>>>>> >>>>>>> +---End of message---+ >>>>>>> To unsubscribe send any message to >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> > --000000000000ea09b505697f5ff3 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Using channel combiner on a discrete layer and then using = that as a track matte on your original footage should allow you to keep the= color values in 16 or 32 bit, even while the matte is restricted to 8 bit.= A couple more steps, but doable.

On Tue, Apr 10, 2018 at 9:28 AM, Roei Tzoref <= AE-List@media-motion.tv> wrote:
Thanks for the headsup Robert. so it's back to 3r= d party plugins again I guess, natively it's too complicated :)

On Tue, Apr 10, 2018 at 4:15 PM, Byron Nash <A= E-List@media-motion.tv> wrote:
This is a spot on discussion. Nice information everyon= e. I'd like to see this level of depth more often on this list!=C2=A0 = =C2=A0:-)=C2=A0

I do need 16bit for this project. So, I&= #39;ll look harder at the suggestion Robert made.=C2=A0

<= div class=3D"gmail_quote">
On Tue, Apr 10, 2018 at 7:31 AM = Robert Kjettrup <AE-List@media-motion.tv> wrote:
The Channel Combiner is unfortunately still only= 8bit and will disregard any masks on a layer, so if you want to do an accu= rate unmult with higher bitdepth with native AE tools then you need to firs= t in a precomp do your own Max RGB.=C2=A0
Seperating the footage in 3 l= ayers, shifting each color channel into each of the other channel to get a = full Red a full Green and a full Blue, then comp them with the Lighten blen= d mode and you will get the MaxRGB for that image. This precomp you use as = an secondary input in a Set Matte effect on the original image and set &quo= t;use for matte" to "luminance", and end with using Remove C= olor Matting... So much easier if we had a simple native Unmult effect :-/<= /div>

to make it a bit simpler to understand the steps a= bove you can download an .aep file here:
=

Robert


2018-04-10 10:35 GMT+0= 2:00 Chris Zwar <AE-List@media-motion.tv>:
Thanks for trying and sharing!


On 10 Apr 2018, at 6:32 pm, Roei Tzoref <AE-List@media-motion.= tv> wrote:

<= div dir=3D"ltr">
Great. Channel Combiner followed by remove color matti= ng give the precise result.

Thanks Chris. one more= plugin I don't have to use :)

On Tue, Apr 10, 2018 at 5:59 AM, Chris Zwar <= AE-List@media-motion.tv> wrote:
Oh Ok= .=C2=A0 I haven=E2=80=99t looked at the AE preset, but I can see that the p= roblem is that it is using the shift channels to copy the lightness value.= =C2=A0 This isn=E2=80=99t correct, the better way to do it is to use the ch= annel combiner plugin to copy the Max RGB value to the alpha channel.
<= br>
Try using that instead of shift channels and see if you get d= ifferent results. =C2=A0
<= br>

On 10 Apr 2018, at 11:37 am, Roe= i Tzoref <A= E-List@media-motion.tv> wrote:

Thanks Chris, I have watched your tutorial a while back. this does= not solve the problem with Ae's unmult though...
as I mentioned, Ae's Unmult preset, which simply = does 2 things: Shift Channels with take alpha from lightness + remove color= matting, is not a good tool for unmulting since it has a discoloring after= effect which AFAIK cannot be avoided.

a simp= le test confirms this.=C2=A0example= s here:

AFAIK, the only = way to unmult accurately in Ae is to use any of these 3rd party plugins: Kn= oll Unmult,=C2=A0mekajik Unmult, VC Color Vibrance

On Tue, Apr 10, 2018 at 4:03 AM, Chris Zwar <AE-List@media-motion= .tv> wrote:
Actually it=E2=80=99s the= opposite.=C2=A0 If you simply copy the lightness into the alpha then the R= GB is preserved entirely, but this isn=E2=80=99t accurate.=C2=A0 You need t= o use the remove colour matting plugin as well, which then takes the backgr= ound colour into account and adjusts everything accordingly.

=
This video demonstrates what the remove colour matting plugin does and= why it=E2=80=99s important:



On 10 Apr 20= 18, at 10:57 am, Roei Tzoref <AE-List@media-motion.tv> wrote:

Ae's Umult - Alpha from Li= ghtness (Unmult) preset) unfortunately is not optimal since it has a discol= oring result. it does not preserve the RGB information in it's entirety= . I have seen not any way in Ae to unmult natively without this discoloring= effect. a simple test is taking a black solid, adding a lens flare effect,= then trying to unmult.=C2=A0

another free option exists= in the VC Color Vibrance plugin which is free by video copilot:=C2=A0

simp= ly change the color to 0 to have no effect in color, and change "matte= alpha" to "on"



On Tue, Apr 10, 2018= at 1:47 AM, Stephen van Vuuren <AE-List@media-motion.tv> wrote:
And if you want to mess around= with more creative kind of options, Brian Moffit eons ago suggested a Shif= t Channels (Take Alpha from Luminance) and muck about the a levels effect t= o boost/lower alpha to taste.

-----Original Message-----
From: After Effects Mail List <AE-List@media-motion.tv>
Sent: Monday, April 9, 2018 6:04 PM
To: After Effects Mail List <AE-List@media-motion.tv>
Subject: Re: [AE] Unmult?

It=E2=80=99s not THAT cumbersome to do with standard AE tools=E2=80=A6 firs= t you use the channel combiner, set the first option to Max RGB and the sec= ond to Lightness. Then use the =E2=80=9Cremove colour matting=E2=80=9D plug= in.=C2=A0 The combination of those two effects is the same as unmult.

> On 9 Apr 2018, at 11:43 pm, Byron Nash <AE-List@media-motion.tv> wrote: >
> Looks like Red Giant put their unmult effect into legacy status and th= ey have one in Universe now? What's the current pulse on which unmult e= ffect to use? Is there another option these days?


+---End of message---+
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