From: "Byron Nash" Received: from mail-qt0-f177.google.com ([209.85.216.177] verified) by media-motion.tv (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.1.0) with ESMTPS id 6438060 for AE-List@media-motion.tv; Wed, 18 Apr 2018 13:22:12 +0200 Received: by mail-qt0-f177.google.com with SMTP id w12-v6so1340728qti.4 for ; Wed, 18 Apr 2018 04:27:48 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=CWPj8XWqV0O6Z7v1HUcpItf2Q15KlxBrsscrq6VNEO0=; b=msllT83EoJXqZjr6f/vPQf1HjvmMT9mipqadOPKvdJ0PnBQ4kskC+g7Xliyb4ARs/7 DKeYYHzx2+cv/VSf4BKkwNAnQTlwCVnuCqFo9HrGysSbC14phSKERHnEbaadLQAQ4MPo YVN9sZGr5rJxEE4gEcqPfKtikOQxpXNvJQ4WXgfqxz/sncEjE/WIOHG24Xziy/4Z2BES l9jXipQNajbkBa/2hOM+SDNZ76K7rzv7rG/E12/YFV1tF+7YTZZXRYu72orkuog8MZDl Yy/9ml78g/zfznp+BP8ioyZ6ancxBwGBKy7LmeiAHOc6mDZo0PZZmdEbQYSF3Dwu1v8F 49Sw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=CWPj8XWqV0O6Z7v1HUcpItf2Q15KlxBrsscrq6VNEO0=; b=Kytitj7RyCsb5BUJCQ9C6ZA6xihOO+gc8Cw19U9nIk3r9bzqEIjEksHsFQdL2Vb1yF 0ppNrJ4WNGlrJHeB5o7rXE08yx8Vg2X7Xdg4S/99DYg1Ev+M2ySkttp1TS2T5lDnr93T Tl+HUVwRWoO9xq/U5Byy6gtzfLa644lR961qsgFbY2qCKF6FSEfqk5kvlZBo5xaC8+TF 6NH9yFkjxZI19OFrDwhlBgqwjaaXwbOpRwTb3oAd6KVFKEBas5XLHr762R+DLUu57fIt O1WoDXZnZvRgrd3xyubqV1I7CkS1+Db+/ETqTIOciTMhhKUeS71tvW6oT4qtyXD7Zpgg DnTw== X-Gm-Message-State: ALQs6tBYLEcMV1qN6V2QLTUKNSTenGqX8d80h77eBACP6yEaVejL5E/E skuOMIzooIe+UZOJmU/QkE8IYQBZzfmIzSGnEdM= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AIpwx4/Jy4ugLFAIzbO85YuPTGmf1QG/qfEUwtov08N11Z/iZEchzwktkP/amxt20WU7heJyVqqGDgpmViLGF7SpmZA= X-Received: by 2002:ac8:3f72:: with SMTP id w47-v6mr1694401qtk.318.1524050866466; Wed, 18 Apr 2018 04:27:46 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2018 11:27:35 +0000 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [AE] Inverse Square Law for glows To: After Effects Mail List Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000083f374056a1dbe6e" --00000000000083f374056a1dbe6e Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks Chris. That's the kind of info I was after. I like to at least attempt to understand the math of what's going on. I'll check out that tutorial Mathais. On Wed, Apr 18, 2018 at 2:49 AM Mathias M=C3=B6hl wrote: > Here is a great Ae tutorial about building your own glow preset based on > inverse square law: > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D--LsJ0DErgM > > Cheers, > Mathias > > > > ------------------------------ > > *mamoworld.com simplify your cgi* > > Dr. Mathias M=C3=B6hl > Marlow 52 , 18551 Sagard, Germany > Phone +49 (0)38302 - 88 75 61 > info@mamoworld.com > > > On 18 Apr 2018, at 01:37, Chris Zwar wrote: > > If you want to do it mathematically then it=E2=80=99s more complex than y= ou think, > as you need to consider the gamma of the workspace you=E2=80=99re using. > > Making something glow by stacking up multiple layers with different blurs > is faking it, but probably the best way to do it in 8 or 16 bit modes. > It=E2=80=99s the way i do it too, although I use the screen mode (not add= ), and I > usually have a desaturated layer near the top set to classic colour dodge > to adjust the =E2=80=9Chotness=E2=80=9D. From a mathematical perspective= , you=E2=80=99re not just > looking at the blur profile but also the gamma of the workspace so this > multiple layer approach is going to be difficult to calculate. > > The alternative approach is to comp in 32 bit linear mode, where you don= =E2=80=99t > need to stack up multiple layers. You just have your source layer and ma= ke > the colour super hot. Then you blur it and the blur naturally spreads ou= t > the light. The falloff will depend on the type of blur you use. I did a= sk > a while ago (for exactly the same reason as you) if there=E2=80=99s a blu= r with an > adjustable profile including inverse square, which would be very useful f= or > comping glows in 32 bit float mode. I can=E2=80=99t remember the answer,= but > there=E2=80=99s something for you to look at. > > So basically - multiple layers using add/screen and blur is an 8/16 bit > fudge for a gamma working space like sRGB/HDR. A single, super hot layer > with a single blur in 32 bit linear float is the more natural approach. > > Or you can just use a plugin that does it, as lloyd suggests :-) > > > -Chris > > On 18 Apr 2018, at 4:28 am, Byron Nash wrote: > > So, if I were applying that to say, the blur of a layer, what would be th= e > "distance" variable? I'm stacking several layers with Add transfer modes > and variable amounts of blur. > > On Tue, Apr 17, 2018 at 2:17 PM Walter Soyka > wrote: > >> The inverse square law states that intensity is inversely proportional t= o >> the square of the distance from the source. Symbolically: >> intensity =3D 1 / (distance^2) >> >> Doing a little math, when the distance is 1, the intensity is 1. When th= e >> distance is 2, the intensity is 0.25. When the distance is 3, the intens= ity >> is 0.111. When the distance is 4, the intensity is 0.0625. >> >> *walter soyka* =E2=96=BC keen live >> walter@keenlive.com >> >> On Tue, Apr 17, 2018 at 1:46 PM, Byron Nash >> wrote: >> >>> Always the consummate salesman Lloyd! ;-) >>> >>> I think this was more of an experiment to see if I could do it myself >>> and understand the math a bit better. >>> >>> On Tue, Apr 17, 2018 at 1:05 PM Lloyd Alvarez >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Oooooorrrr you could just use Real Glow >>>> ! ;-) >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Lloyd >>>> >>>> On Tue, Apr 17, 2018 at 12:16 PM, Byron Nash >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I'm trying to roll my own setup for a better glow. If I'm trying to >>>>> follow the inverse square law to do the math, would I half/double the >>>>> amounts at each iteration? Or square root? >>>>> >>>> >>>> >> > > --00000000000083f374056a1dbe6e Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks Chris. That's the kind of info I was after. I l= ike to at least attempt to understand the math of what's going on. I= 9;ll check out that tutorial Mathais.=C2=A0

On Wed, Apr 18, 2018 at 2:49 AM Mathias M=C3=B6hl <= ;AE-List@media-motion.tv>= wrote:
Here is a great Ae tutorial about building your own glow preset ba= sed on inverse square law:

Cheers,
Mathias

<= /div>


mamowor= ld.com
simplify your cgi

Dr. Mathias M=C3=B6hl
Marlow 52 , 18551= Sagard, Germany
Phone +49 (0)38302 - 88 75 61
info@mamoworld.com


=
<= /div>

On 18 Apr 2018, at 01:37, Chris Zwar <AE-List@media-motion.tv> = wrote:

<= div>
If you= want to do it mathematically then it=E2=80=99s more complex than you think= , as you need to consider the gamma of the workspace you=E2=80=99re using.<= div>
Making something glow by stacking up multiple layers wit= h different blurs is faking it, but probably the best way to do it in 8 or = 16 bit modes.=C2=A0 It=E2=80=99s the way i do it too, although I use the sc= reen mode (not add), and I usually have a desaturated layer near the top se= t to classic colour dodge to adjust the =E2=80=9Chotness=E2=80=9D.=C2=A0 Fr= om a mathematical perspective, you=E2=80=99re not just looking at the blur = profile but also the gamma of the workspace so this multiple layer approach= is going to be difficult to calculate.

The altern= ative approach is to comp in 32 bit linear mode, where you don=E2=80=99t ne= ed to stack up multiple layers.=C2=A0 You just have your source layer and m= ake the colour super hot.=C2=A0 Then you blur it and the blur naturally spr= eads out the light.=C2=A0 The falloff will depend on the type of blur you u= se.=C2=A0 I did ask a while ago (for exactly the same reason as you) if the= re=E2=80=99s a blur with an adjustable profile including inverse square, wh= ich would be very useful for comping glows in 32 bit float mode.=C2=A0 I ca= n=E2=80=99t remember the answer, but there=E2=80=99s something for you to l= ook at.

So basically - multiple layers using add/s= creen and blur is an 8/16 bit fudge for a gamma working space like sRGB/HDR= .=C2=A0 A single, super hot layer with a single blur in 32 bit linear float= is the more natural approach.

Or you can just use= a plugin that does it, as lloyd suggests :-)


=
-Chris
On 18 Apr 2= 018, at 4:28 am, Byron Nash <AE-List@media-motion.tv> wrote:


On Tue, Apr 17, 2018 at 1:46 PM, Byron Nash = <AE-List@media-motion.tv> wrote:
Always the consummate salesman Lloyd! ;-)=C2= =A0

I think this was more of an experiment to see if I c= ould do it myself and understand the math a bit better.=C2=A0

On Tue, Apr 17, 2018 at 1:05 PM Lloyd Alvarez <= AE-List@media-= motion.tv> wrote:
Oooooorrrr you could just use Real Glow! ;-)=

Chee= rs,
Lloyd

On Tue, Apr 17, 2018 at 12:16 PM, Byron Nash= <AE-List@media-motion.tv> wrote:
I'm trying to roll my own setup for a be= tter glow. If I'm trying to follow the inverse square law to do the mat= h, would I half/double the amounts at each iteration? Or square root?




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