From: "Nathan Shipley" Received: from mail-pg0-f43.google.com ([74.125.83.43] verified) by media-motion.tv (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.1.0) with ESMTPS id 6469008 for AE-List@media-motion.tv; Fri, 22 Jun 2018 16:58:01 +0200 Received: by mail-pg0-f43.google.com with SMTP id c9-v6so3100067pgf.5 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2018 08:05:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=bC9Ni9wGC9soSQEuDkNZqbbpcW0aUEtYZGpvS256lEI=; b=OWeVL9TL8KomclfCDF8/oRG/Uge4ovGUROBsZDwRT9wPwTl+xQo/nSov4KVXMKl2em V3FMlKqMBWRc2FJVA5jjS0lRotqPpU7i5CeBfkgbR+2Mnqtdd37xK/p0x6QsvQ2qjE/r JSgddV+54VpDkMuS55pXaRiGRl6S+JaqAFJeI8BlEg9KOatJu5NRmqd/SSRo0BBCOkn7 EEc5yBjkOxz7+RVPYYH4H4CjOHBztBe0H0+9xBg6TdYuiOVQUtttdAYBQTp6y+TFQHPm 9COP7ywzN8SI2hrMRIDObadssmMKdFIqazf6sVHr+jOJrYA6zZrYQ3m6mPxk8vJlYrlg FwvQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=bC9Ni9wGC9soSQEuDkNZqbbpcW0aUEtYZGpvS256lEI=; b=HsMtSFhJy3TjA0B32wF0CrgzZRQRQ/YpP/rBEtHgSCgU9SQC/bekW2xqF3YNNmAGxK rC+BcJUYsCPMieoCCjG4B8yTrE06w/tqyZGh1Mw69o68fVqNd6+awfXM1D1WTmuI0Nx2 DRR+Qd45p/avshDajjQSWtj6IEMuPfveeRq9Uw4wuPSjaDc7BobIgaRxcPyvv0hMDM7L awlXyqAEgcm5E3c5yj1DfQL4QUX9DpUgcpuyUz8328d9ts7Sehi8ROFxQ5E01RL6YbYd v1sCK0uTq+PFVtvlN8KwTt+WUy0vcNwFXkvkCHM+i4tirI1vuW16Rx1iRgfeKDk3TRGy KstA== X-Gm-Message-State: APt69E3YRRP5/yIRcU04hwWrpVWu8CcLOtj+vBtlNHJZWF9EbsmoWVgX sb0vrPeNfuMhh9cSDwm1AZVQ5vQD6RamtnxPfQ7FP4ma X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADUXVKLqXi0Iun5l/Ub0jPgZVKk80WSy/W0ZCOTsMH1qO19D6D1NBlg7Ux0iiH0pp2+cbEHT5fcShqYCfrbLm23n3UQ= X-Received: by 2002:a65:6252:: with SMTP id q18-v6mr1804365pgv.106.1529679946468; Fri, 22 Jun 2018 08:05:46 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a17:90a:7146:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Fri, 22 Jun 2018 08:05:25 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2018 08:05:25 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [AE] VR Tools GPU/CPU VRAM limitations To: After Effects Mail List Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000d452ce056f3c5def" --000000000000d452ce056f3c5def Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jarie does make an interesting point about the monitors themselves using a certain amount of VRAM. I've done some machine learning work that's very VRAM dependent with a lower RAM card on a Mac (GTX 980 in a cheesegrater) and had to unplug one monitor to free up that little bit of extra VRAM to not run out of VRAM. I also observed something else - the act of unplugging and replugging a monitors DVI cable "clears out" the currently used VRAM. That is to say, imagine you've been working for a while, have a bunch of programs open and have, say, 1 GB free of VRAM. Unplug the monitors DVI cable, plug it back in, and you'll go back to 3 GB free for that moment. Using an Nvidia card on a Mac, you can check how much RAM is currently used with this command line utility: https://github.com/micahstubbs/cuda-smi/releases/tag/v1.0 I'd be curious if the machines that were able to render Brendan's VR project at full res only had one monitor? Or perhaps they had more recent versions of the Nvidia web driver or CUDA driver - if they have Nvidia cards, that is. On Fri, Jun 22, 2018 at 7:37 AM, Stephen van Vuuren wrote: > > I guess the VRAM requirements for AE are like the ones for Premiere. > Quoting from page 559 in The Cool Stuff in Premiere Pro: > > Interesting. But I doubt it's true since the VR Tools cannot work at all > with GPU acceleration turned off unlike Premiere's implementation. I > suspect they are using the engine differently. > > And if it were frame buffer by layer, in AE it's easy to have 5 or 10 > layers in a very simple project vs. Premiere. 50 or more layers is still > common in AE. You would a graphic card of 50GB+ of VRAM (which don't > exist). That would be a fatal, dead on arrival design flaw. > > -----Original Message----- > From: After Effects Mail List > Sent: Friday, June 22, 2018 7:37 AM > To: After Effects Mail List > Subject: Re: [AE] VR Tools GPU/CPU VRAM limitations > > Stephen van Vuuren wrote: > > > I can find no useful information on: > > * Is there a way to force CPU rendering? > > * How much VRAM is required and can you use SLI to split via > multiple > > cards as 8+ GB VRAM cards are very expensive. > > * What frame sizes does the VR tools support? We have 5600 x 4200 > and > > 8000 x 8000 - the weird part is simple projects are fine, but bring in > lots of layers, bitmaps and the errors begin. > > I guess the VRAM requirements for AE are like the ones for Premiere. > Quoting from page 559 in The Cool Stuff in Premiere Pro: > > * The approximate amount of GPU memory needed is Width*Height/13107 > * An 8K video frame, 8192 =C3=97 4320 pixels, requires approximately 2.7 = GB. > * Stills from a Canon EOS 5DS, 8688 =C3=97 5792 pixels, require approxima= tely > 3.84 GB, so you need a GPU with at least 4 GB video RAM. > > 8k x 8k requires about 4.9 GB per layer. > > This is per layer, so if you blend two layers of that size, double the > required amount of VRAM to get real-time playback (with GPU-accelerated > effects only). When you run out of VRAM, you'll need to render. The > rendering will use both the GPU and the CPU, unless you choose Mercury > Software Only in Project Settings. > > https://premierepro.net/coolstuff/ > > > Brendan Wrote: > > Weirdly, we had other machines with the same graphics card and > > everything > else that couldn't. > > If the screen resolutions were different, that could explain why this > happened. The GPU is also responsible for pushing pixels to the screen. O= ne > of my clients failed to do the math, and bought lots of laptops that they > planned to use with two 4k monitors. They had to lower the resolution of > those monitors to HD. There wasn't enough VRAM left for AE and Premiere > when they used the 4k resolution. > > I have not been able to find any documentation about how much VRAM is use= d > to push pixels to the screen at different screen resolutions. Has anyone > seen something like that? > > > +---End of message---+ > To unsubscribe send any message to > > +---End of message---+ > To unsubscribe send any message to > --000000000000d452ce056f3c5def Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Jarie does make an interesting point about the monitors th= emselves using a certain amount of VRAM.=C2=A0 I've done some machine l= earning work that's very VRAM dependent with a lower RAM card on a Mac = (GTX 980 in a cheesegrater) and had to unplug one monitor to free up that l= ittle bit of extra VRAM to not run out of VRAM.

I also o= bserved something else - the act of unplugging and replugging a monitors DV= I cable "clears out" the currently used VRAM.=C2=A0 That is to sa= y, imagine you've been working for a while, have a bunch of programs op= en and have, say, 1 GB free of VRAM.=C2=A0 Unplug the monitors DVI cable, p= lug it back in, and you'll go back to 3 GB free for that moment.
<= div>
Using an Nvidia card on a Mac, you can check how much RA= M is currently used with this command line utility:=C2=A0=C2=A0https://github.co= m/micahstubbs/cuda-smi/releases/tag/v1.0

I'= ;d be curious if the machines that were able to render Brendan's VR pro= ject at full res only had one monitor?=C2=A0 Or perhaps they had more recen= t versions of the Nvidia web driver or CUDA driver - if they have Nvidia ca= rds, that is.


On Fri, Jun 22, 2018 at 7:37 AM, Stephen van Vuuren = <AE-List@media-motion.tv> wrote:
> I guess the VRAM requirements for AE ar= e like the ones for Premiere. Quoting from page 559 in The Cool Stuff in Pr= emiere Pro:

Interesting. But I doubt it's true since the VR Tools cannot wor= k at all with GPU acceleration turned off unlike Premiere's implementat= ion. I suspect they are using the engine differently.

And if it were frame buffer by layer, in AE it's easy to have 5 or 10 l= ayers in a very simple project vs. Premiere. 50 or more layers is still com= mon in AE. You would a graphic card of 50GB+ of VRAM (which don't exist= ). That would be a fatal, dead on arrival design flaw.

-----Original Message-----
From: After Effects Mail List <AE-List@media-motion.tv>
Sent: Friday, June 22, 2018 7:37 AM
To: After Effects Mail List <= AE-List@media-motion.tv>
Subject: Re: [AE] VR Tools GPU/CPU VRAM limitations

Stephen van Vuuren wrote:
> I can find no useful information on:
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0* Is there a way to force CPU rendering?
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0* How much VRAM is required and can you use = SLI to split via
multiple
> cards as 8+ GB VRAM cards are very expensive.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0* What frame sizes does the VR tools support= ? We have 5600 x 4200
and
> 8000 x 8000 - the weird part is simple projects are fine, but bring in=
lots of layers, bitmaps and the errors begin.

I guess the VRAM requirements for AE are like the ones for Premiere. Quotin= g from page 559 in The Cool Stuff in Premiere Pro:

* The approximate amount of GPU memory needed is Width*Height/13107
* An 8K video frame, 8192 =C3=97 4320 pixels, requires approximately 2.7 GB= .
* Stills from a Canon EOS 5DS, 8688 =C3=97 5792 pixels, require approximate= ly
3.84 GB, so you need a GPU with at least 4 GB video RAM.

8k x 8k requires about 4.9 GB per layer.

This is per layer, so if you blend two layers of that size, double the requ= ired amount of VRAM to get real-time playback (with GPU-accelerated effects= only). When you run out of VRAM, you'll need to render. The rendering = will use both the GPU and the CPU, unless you choose Mercury Software Only = in Project Settings.

https://premierepro.net/coolstuff/


Brendan Wrote:
> Weirdly, we had other machines with the same graphics card and
> everything
else that couldn't.

If the screen resolutions were different, that could explain why this happe= ned. The GPU is also responsible for pushing pixels to the screen. One of m= y clients failed to do the math, and bought lots of laptops that they plann= ed to use with two 4k monitors. They had to lower the resolution of those m= onitors to HD. There wasn't enough VRAM left for AE and Premiere when t= hey used the 4k resolution.

I have not been able to find any documentation about how much VRAM is used = to push pixels to the screen at different screen resolutions. Has anyone se= en something like that?


+---End of message---+
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