From: "Dennis Wilkins" Received: from biz127.inmotionhosting.com ([205.134.250.21] verified) by media-motion.tv (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.1.0) with ESMTPS id 7117161 for AE-List@media-motion.tv; Mon, 16 Jul 2018 20:35:21 +0200 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=reelsolutions.com; s=default; h=Message-Id:In-Reply-To:To:References:Date: Subject:Mime-Version:Content-Type:From:Sender:Reply-To:Cc: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date: Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=2qHh53UpVNW1WYZaIuW6c8BIcuFTysldioAox7HVJS8=; b=luw17QSOhb5tRreGNOppoC+fW 1ir9FYqdllw95xbKeT5+YnsY8u3fSQCWNINsXnF8rceWPNGjhv8ORcc5dDuL6u8VN/OaZLbG8dPo/ aaxIj1c58gnTQTDs+xtbBgDb7WlHXEKFZT3rqZwHGWiheAKdTTbGGV+ZlPzwTWCyKGJa0=; Received: from [73.222.249.170] (port=38455 helo=[192.168.1.92]) by biz127.inmotionhosting.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ff8TJ-00ATJv-J7 for AE-List@media-motion.tv; Mon, 16 Jul 2018 11:43:56 -0700 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_E9A042C4-86BB-460B-A3AD-04FA0AD9AA52" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.4 \(3445.8.2\)) Subject: Re: [AE] Lack of QuickTime + HAP codec support Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2018 11:43:44 -0700 References: To: After Effects Mail List In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <397E7D53-D030-413A-A1C2-AB7063709710@reelsolutions.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.8.2) X-OutGoing-Spam-Status: No, score=0.2 X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - biz127.inmotionhosting.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - media-motion.tv X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - reelsolutions.com X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: biz127.inmotionhosting.com: authenticated_id: dennis@reelsolutions.com X-Authenticated-Sender: biz127.inmotionhosting.com: dennis@reelsolutions.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: --Apple-Mail=_E9A042C4-86BB-460B-A3AD-04FA0AD9AA52 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Adobe tends to focus on stuff that benefits the most users, leaving = niche stuff, like HAP, to third parties. Which is exactly what Apple did and is now taking the blame for here... Adobe just made 1.5 billion in the last quarter on Creative Cloud = products, so no - I=E2=80=99m not going to feel bad for Adobe or think = they are a helpless victim.=20 I didn=E2=80=99t say anything about replacing QuickTime or supporting = every codec, it's their decision as a company to do what they want with = their product. What I=E2=80=99m saying is that it was their decision to just drop all = of the codecs at once without alerting their users; they could have = posted an alert with a questionnaire years ago asking what codecs were = needed by their users and make their decisions accordingly. This is just = another case of Adobe not supporting it=E2=80=99s customers very well. I=E2=80=99m all for third party software - After Effects would be = irrelevant at this point without it. But should we really have to rely = on third parties for multi-process rendering, sub-sample erode-dilate, = etc. etc. Adobe makes a ton of money off of it's users, and then we have = apologists saying =E2=80=9Cpoor Adobe=E2=80=9D while they take our = money. Lastly, this isn=E2=80=99t meant to imply that the After Effects = development team sucks, it=E2=80=99s that they likely don=E2=80=99t have = the resources necessary to do what is needed (another decision made by = the management at Adobe, not Apple). - Dennis > On Jul 16, 2018, at 11:20 AM, Jim Tierney = wrote: >=20 > >> They are responsible for insuring support for the codecs that they = offer in their apps. > =C2=A0 <> > So=E2=80=A6 they need to re-write/implement every codec that was = available for Quicktime? You=E2=80=99re basically asking them to = re-write Quicktime and I don=E2=80=99t think you understand how much = work that would be. Adobe tends to focus on stuff that benefits the most = users, leaving niche stuff, like HAP, to third parties. They can=E2=80=99t= do everything, everyone wants. And it sounds like the AfterCodecs = product has filled that gap. Although, you could just render it out and = then use an older version of CC to transcode it. > =20 > Jim > ------------------- > Jim Tierney > President > Digital Anarchy > =20 > =20 > =20 > From: After Effects Mail List [mailto:AE-List@media-motion.tv = ]=20 > Sent: Monday, July 16, 2018 9:52 AM > To: After Effects Mail List > Subject: Re: [AE] Lack of QuickTime + HAP codec support > =20 > I don=E2=80=99t understand how you can blame Apple on this. Quicktime = 7 was deprecated years ago and Adobe has known for a long time that = codec support using QuickTime was going away. They are responsible for = insuring support for the codecs that they offer in their apps. > =20 > - Dennis > =20 > =20 >=20 >=20 > On Jul 16, 2018, at 7:24 AM, Stephen van Vuuren = > wrote: > =20 > One of the threads is here: > =20 > https://forums.adobe.com/thread/2413891 = ? > =20 > From: After Effects Mail List >=20 > Sent: Monday, July 16, 2018 10:22 AM > To: After Effects Mail List > > Subject: Re: [AE] Lack of QuickTime + HAP codec support > =20 > about missing versions: after testing this a while ago, found out that = only CC 2015.3 is missing in Ae: > https://forums.adobe.com/thread/2484565 = > =20 > I recently re-installed my machine and was able to install all version = but CC2015.3=20 > =20 > On Mon, Jul 16, 2018 at 5:10 PM, Stephen van Vuuren = > wrote: > That=E2=80=99s only on machines that had CC prior versions installed. = On a new machine, new install, some versions are missing. Lots of noise = about it in Adobe forums. > =20 > From: After Effects Mail List >=20 > Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2018 7:40 PM > To: After Effects Mail List > > Subject: Re: [AE] Lack of QuickTime + HAP codec support > =20 > I just checked (on my home mac) and I still have the option to show = older versions, and install older versions back to CS6. I=E2=80=99m = running the latest version of the CC app. > =20 > In the CC app, where the apps are listed with either a white tablet = that says =E2=80=9Copen=E2=80=9D or a blue tablet that says =E2=80=9Cupdat= e=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9Cinstall", I click on the arrow on the right side = and I get an =E2=80=9Cother versions=E2=80=9D option. If I click on = this, it lists all versions back to CS6 with the option to install. > =20 > Are you not seeing the same thing? > =20 > On 16 Jul 2018, at 9:16 am, Stephen van Vuuren = > wrote: > =20 > > You can still install older versions of AE / PR / ME through the = Adobe Creative Cloud app and that will keep you going for a bit.=20 > =20 > This is not true on new installs which I discovered to my horror =E2=80=93= those older versions with Dolby and other licensing issues have been = removed. > =20 > From: After Effects Mail List >=20 > Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2018 7:00 PM > To: After Effects Mail List > > Subject: Re: [AE] Lack of Quicktime + HAP codec support > =20 > While we bought AfterCodecs for this very situation, we also kept all = of the older version of After Effects / Premiere / MediaEncoder on all = our machines. You can still install older versions of AE / PR / ME = through the Adobe Creative Cloud app and that will keep you going for a = bit. We work in CC 2018 but render to image sequences, then we import = and output these using CC 2017. You can always back-save your projects = for CC 2017 too, if you=E2=80=99re not using any features from the = latest release. > I think my home machine has 5 or 6 versions of After Effects on it, = going back to CS 6. =20 > =20 > =20 > -Chris >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > On 16 Jul 2018, at 2:47 am, Michael Powers > wrote: > =20 > I am working round the clock to get out a giant projection mapping = project in Grand Central Terminal. I go to encode my files for D3 = playback in AfterFX or even AME with the HAP codec and I remember it is = not there!@!#$%$ > =20 > This is a giant pain in ass. I have submitted my displeasure to the = Adobe forum and feature/bugs email the last time this bit me. > =20 > Dear Adobe product leaders how about a response =E2=80=93 or better = yet supporting customer workflows! > =20 > =20 > Mike Powers > Director of Animation \ Cramer > =20 > 781.278.2354 > mpowers@cramer.com > https://vimeo.com/mpowers > 3DBOXX W8920Processor 32.0 GB RAM=20 > Dual Xeon CPU E5-2670 0 @ 2.60GHz, 2601 Mhz, 8 Core(s), 16 Logical = Processor(s) > Windows 10 Enterprise - 1709 (OS Build 16299.64) > NVIDIA GTX TITAN Black RAM 6.0 GB Driver Version 2.1.2 NVIDIA = 388.31 --Apple-Mail=_E9A042C4-86BB-460B-A3AD-04FA0AD9AA52 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Adobe tends to focus on stuff that benefits = the most users, leaving niche stuff, like HAP, to third = parties.

Which = is exactly what Apple did and is now taking the blame for = here...

Adobe just made 1.5 billion in the last quarter on Creative = Cloud products, so no - I=E2=80=99m not going to feel bad for Adobe or = think they are a helpless victim. 

I didn=E2=80=99t say anything about = replacing QuickTime or supporting every codec, it's their decision as a = company to do what they want with their product.

What I=E2=80=99m saying is that it was = their decision to just drop all of the codecs at once without alerting = their users; they could have posted an alert with a questionnaire years = ago asking what codecs were needed by their users and make their = decisions accordingly. This is just another case of Adobe not supporting = it=E2=80=99s customers very well.

I=E2=80=99m all for third party = software - After Effects would be irrelevant at this point without it. = But should we really have to rely on third parties for multi-process = rendering, sub-sample erode-dilate, etc. etc. Adobe makes a ton of money = off of it's users, and then we have apologists saying =E2=80=9Cpoor = Adobe=E2=80=9D while they take our money.

Lastly, this isn=E2=80=99t meant to = imply that the After Effects development team sucks, it=E2=80=99s that = they likely don=E2=80=99t have the resources necessary to do what is = needed (another decision made by the management at Adobe, not = Apple).

- = Dennis



On Jul = 16, 2018, at 11:20 AM, Jim Tierney <AE-List@media-motion.tv> wrote:

>> They are responsible for = insuring support for the codecs that they offer in their apps.
 
So=E2=80=A6 they need to re-write/implement every codec that = was available for Quicktime? You=E2=80=99re basically asking them to = re-write Quicktime and I don=E2=80=99t think you understand how much = work that would be. Adobe tends to focus on stuff that benefits the most = users, leaving niche stuff, like HAP, to third parties. They can=E2=80=99t= do everything, everyone wants. And it sounds like the AfterCodecs = product has filled that gap. Although, you could just render it out and = then use an older version of CC to transcode it.
 
Jim
-------------------
Jim Tierney
President
Digital Anarchy
 
 
 
From: After Effects Mail List [mailto:AE-List@media-motion.tv] 
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2018 9:52 = AM
To: After Effects Mail List
Subject: Re: [AE] Lack of QuickTime = + HAP codec support
 
I don=E2=80=99t understand how you can blame Apple on this. = Quicktime 7 was deprecated years ago and Adobe has known for a long time = that codec support using QuickTime was going away. They are responsible = for insuring support for the codecs that they offer in their apps.
 
- = Dennis
 
 


On Jul 16, 2018, at 7:24 = AM, Stephen van Vuuren <AE-List@media-motion.tv> wrote:
 
One of the threads is here:
 
https://forums.adobe.com/thread/2413891?
 
From: After Effects Mail List <AE-List@media-motion.tv> 
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2018 10:22 = AM
To: After Effects Mail List = <AE-List@media-motion.tv>
Subject: Re: [AE] Lack of QuickTime = + HAP codec support
 
about missing versions: after testing this a = while ago, found out that only CC 2015.3 is missing in Ae:
https://forums.adobe.com/thread/2484565
 
I recently re-installed my machine and was able = to install all version but CC2015.3 
 
On Mon, Jul 16, 2018 at 5:10 PM, Stephen van = Vuuren <AE-List@media-motion.tv>= wrote:
That=E2=80=99s only on machines that had CC prior versions = installed. On a new machine, new install, some versions are missing. = Lots of noise about it in Adobe forums.
 
From: After Effects Mail List <AE-List@media-motion.tv> 
Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2018 7:40 = PM
To: After Effects Mail List = <AE-List@media-motion.tv>
Subject: Re: [AE] Lack of QuickTime = + HAP codec support
 
I just checked (on my home = mac) and I still have the option to show older versions, and install = older versions back to CS6.  I=E2=80=99m running the latest version = of the CC app.
 
In= the CC app, where the apps are listed with either a white tablet that = says =E2=80=9Copen=E2=80=9D or a blue tablet that says =E2=80=9Cupdate=E2=80= =9D or =E2=80=9Cinstall", I click on the arrow on the right side and I = get an =E2=80=9Cother versions=E2=80=9D option.  If I click on = this, it lists all versions back to CS6 with the option to install.
 
Are you not seeing the same thing?
 
On 16 Jul 2018, at 9:16 am, Stephen van Vuuren = <AE-List@media-motion.tv>= wrote:
 
>  You can still install older versions of AE / PR / = ME through the Adobe Creative Cloud app and that will keep you going for = a bit.  
 
This is not true on new installs which I discovered to my = horror =E2=80=93 those older versions with Dolby and other licensing = issues have been removed.
 
From: After Effects Mail List = <AE-List@media-motion.tv>&n= bsp;
Sent:&n= bsp;Sunday, July 15, 2018 7:00 PM
To:&n= bsp;After Effects Mail List <AE-List@media-motion.tv>
Subject:&n= bsp;Re: [AE] Lack of Quicktime + HAP codec support
 
While we bought AfterCodecs for this very = situation, we also kept all of the older version of After Effects / = Premiere / MediaEncoder on all our machines.  You can still install = older versions of AE / PR / ME through the Adobe Creative Cloud app and = that will keep you going for a bit.  We work in CC 2018 but render = to image sequences, then we import and output these using CC 2017.  = You can always back-save your projects for CC 2017 too, if you=E2=80=99re = not using any features from the latest release.
I think my home machine has 5 or 6 versions of = After Effects on it, going back to CS 6.  
 
 
-Chris




On= 16 Jul 2018, at 2:47 am, Michael Powers <AE-List@media-motion.tv> wrote:
 
I am working round = the clock to get out a giant projection mapping project in Grand Central = Terminal. I go to encode my files for D3 playback in AfterFX or even AME = with the HAP codec and I remember it is not there!@!#$%$
 
This is a giant pain in ass. I have submitted my = displeasure to the Adobe forum and feature/bugs email the last time this = bit me.
 
Dear Adobe product leaders how about a response = =E2=80=93 or better yet supporting customer workflows!
 
 

Mike Powers
Director of Animation \&n= bsp;Cramer
 
781.278.2354
mpowers@cramer.com

https://vimeo.com/mpowers

3DBOXX = W8920Processor          = 32.0 GB RAM 
Dual Xeon CPU E5-2670 0 @ 2.60GHz, 2601 Mhz, 8 = Core(s), 16 Logical Processor(s)
Windows 10 Enterprise - 1709 (OS Build = 16299.64)
NVIDIA GTX TITAN Black RAM  6.0 = GB     Driver Version   2.1.2 NVIDIA = 388.31
=
=

= --Apple-Mail=_E9A042C4-86BB-460B-A3AD-04FA0AD9AA52--