From: "Nick Fox-Gieg" Received: from mail-io0-f169.google.com ([209.85.223.169] verified) by media-motion.tv (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.1.0) with ESMTPS id 7117746 for AE-List@media-motion.tv; Wed, 18 Jul 2018 08:01:21 +0200 Received: by mail-io0-f169.google.com with SMTP id y10-v6so3081712ioa.10 for ; Tue, 17 Jul 2018 23:10:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=Z5IdhAIPV/XnTcLenpPSjjSGJSALCukvdm57kkPnV7c=; b=IYQ5Xzj+YhYKeQQL/d/527HmRrDtyHNlFfDFzD30G4bSGY82N02QqHOoz9i2WnVwSq ncqMxFmWptnT5KD3caQfsAoTcYQFhVURuKx2NC+CiepX1utCL9kDBqL1cqAU38IsOd/M TC81zeJFuZZmtN13SIIfcFqlF+t874eUTAkXEHzroHYkpRfWAeUN1dyGZNfbDx+gImvq MFGy3pAbO/ktpbQgIC9wLa77Xz5TVhpjbEtWFHa3OkKIegz38zEhy6P0dJgPkDz35Vji TLFwyJi2Myt5L0CxJnu2kIh+lMW6QuV9w/cpGboj+2QyVAYHsqSphjrfKXMuyMA1VhmT /R9w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=Z5IdhAIPV/XnTcLenpPSjjSGJSALCukvdm57kkPnV7c=; b=IxKLquzWDi4mFlvAFE2iN+D9du69Yq2vUBwf2gRrNi1k18H3rD7pb3WaBRe18wthbR 95NSR2BAqF4r8VdwcO6gyanje330p8MmeFHSfphZeuAdGB40puipcsG4qu2Q0iGaKplY daxUqh7HT6HRbWQdpAcZIs24HCafA+PcnpBGNDGUqH1fqTy9Rf28EvpU0VX9C7YUGMtb hHixY5FMFG4M2f2cN/Mgo6I/YTV1RzxGU5iZh4yz8PjsATsO+IRm707klGM/GffHUFEA T8IuoUNLNymsMfvPCmbvdct5/oSIh353glCJ5VJMu4lCgseAl1Yiaamc+17kDcg0gFml MYJg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOUpUlH/Pb34PfNF2N1UgREBM04PAYxqGJ3mUYVnmzHDUEP7MB5Lmgim Pjy46roBCJgRFJ0aOZ7f/4NfBjUIl4VeyZQg8br5Yg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AA+uWPz0Mc7DSglRbotm3CI8/Sy6fGhCQxZIwqPIdGAHf0sRvneTnd+EejmTWuj78o6rtXfhBMbkWTAARgUxHD0BvbA= X-Received: by 2002:a6b:30c9:: with SMTP id w192-v6mr4201772iow.291.1531894199571; Tue, 17 Jul 2018 23:09:59 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2018 02:09:47 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [AE] Lack of QuickTime + HAP codec support To: After Effects Mail List Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000099643605713fe9c9" --00000000000099643605713fe9c9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hap's not that old--it's an open-source project launched by Vidvox in 2013. It's niche, sure, but VR, theatrical projection, and signage all have a need for GPU-accelerated playback of very high-res video. (H.264 is the only codec with GPU support on lots of consumer devices, and it's limited to 4K.) I think ffmpeg is becoming the way to go in most situations, except for archival projects or where people have specific complaints about its codec quality. (For example, afaik its H.264 implementation is considered excellent, but its ProRes output isn't as popular.) I imagine in the long run AE will end up with a simple preference that lets you choose ffmpeg or AME encoding backends...for now though, AfterCodecs is working well enough for me. Nick On Wed, Jul 18, 2018, 1:23 AM Steve Oakley wrote: > apple, and community leaders have for _years_ been saying QT32 and its > codecs are going away. this has especially been true for the last year. I > know I=E2=80=99ve posted this any number of times. if you have been ignor= ing the > warnings, thats no one else=E2=80=99s fault. apple made it clear with the= release > of 10.12 and 10.13.0 this was happening. adobe could of been a bit more > proactive in also repeating the apple message but=E2=80=A6 this is not a = surprise. > > On Jul 16, 2018, at 1:43 PM, Dennis Wilkins > wrote: > > Adobe tends to focus on stuff that benefits the most users, leaving niche > stuff, like HAP, to third parties. > What I=E2=80=99m saying is that it was their decision to just drop all of= the > codecs at once without alerting their users; they could have posted an > alert with a questionnaire years ago asking what codecs were needed by > their users and make their decisions accordingly. This is just another ca= se > of Adobe not supporting it=E2=80=99s customers very well. > > > adobe has created or licensed any number of common codecs that come in QT > from DV 25/50/100 thru Mpeg2 and ProRes, DNxHD and just added their own > support for animation. its a respectable list of common codecs used in pr= o > environments. that said, the entire AC3 dolby stuff and not being able t= o > install several versions of CS was a huge blunder and they should make a > peace offering to dolby=E2=80=A6 > > as for HAP, its an oddball old codec and totally small niche. ya, its for > some old creaky video playback hardware. well maybe its time the vendor f= or > that hardware stepped up with a codec / encoder app to support their own > hardware. its not like *they* didn=E2=80=99t also know this was coming.. = or get > with apple to create a proper 64bit AVfoundation component to support the= ir > products. while we=E2=80=99re at it, how about cinepak ? Mpeg1 ? h.263 ? = sometimes > you let the past be the past. you can always dual boot into an old flavor > of OSX to encode it too=E2=80=A6 > > S > > I=E2=80=99m all for third party software - After Effects would be irrelev= ant at > this point without it. But should we really have to rely on third parties > for multi-process rendering, sub-sample erode-dilate, etc. etc. Adobe mak= es > a ton of money off of it's users, and then we have apologists saying =E2= =80=9Cpoor > Adobe=E2=80=9D while they take our money. > > Lastly, this isn=E2=80=99t meant to imply that the After Effects developm= ent team > sucks, it=E2=80=99s that they likely don=E2=80=99t have the resources nec= essary to do what > is needed (another decision made by the management at Adobe, not Apple). > > - Dennis > > > > On Jul 16, 2018, at 11:20 AM, Jim Tierney wrote= : > > >> They are responsible for insuring support for the codecs that they > offer in their apps. > > So=E2=80=A6 they need to re-write/implement every codec that was availabl= e for > Quicktime? You=E2=80=99re basically asking them to re-write Quicktime and= I don=E2=80=99t > think you understand how much work that would be. Adobe tends to focus on > stuff that benefits the most users, leaving niche stuff, like HAP, to thi= rd > parties. They can=E2=80=99t do everything, everyone wants. And it sounds = like the > AfterCodecs product has filled that gap. Although, you could just render = it > out and then use an older version of CC to transcode it. > > Jim > ------------------- > Jim Tierney > President > Digital Anarchy > > > > > --00000000000099643605713fe9c9 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hap's not that old--it's an ope= n-source project launched by Vidvox in 2013. It's niche, sure, but VR, = theatrical projection, and signage all have a need for GPU-accelerated play= back of very high-res video. (H.264 is the only codec with GPU support on l= ots of consumer devices, and it's limited to 4K.)

=
I think ffmpeg is becoming the way to go in most si= tuations, except for archival projects or where people have specific compla= ints about its codec quality. (For example, afaik its H.264 implementation = is considered excellent, but its ProRes output isn't as popular.)=C2=A0=

I imagine in the long r= un AE will end up with a simple preference that lets you choose ffmpeg or A= ME encoding backends...for now though, AfterCodecs is working well enough f= or me.

Nick



On Wed, Jul 18, 2018, 1:23 AM Steve Oakley <= AE-List@media-motion.tv> wrote:
apple, and community leaders have for _years_ been saying QT32 an= d its codecs are going away. this has especially been true for the last yea= r. I know I=E2=80=99ve posted this any number of times. if you have been ig= noring the warnings, thats no one else=E2=80=99s fault. apple made it clear= with the release of 10.12 and 10.13.0 this was happening. adobe could of b= een a bit more proactive in also repeating the apple message but=E2=80=A6 t= his is not a surprise.

On Jul 16= , 2018, at 1:43 PM, Dennis Wilkins <AE-List@m= edia-motion.tv> wrote:

Adobe t= ends to focus on stuff that benefits the most users, leaving niche stuff, l= ike HAP, to third parties.
What I=E2=80=99m saying is that it wa= s their decision to just drop all of the codecs at once without alerting th= eir users; they could have posted an alert with a questionnaire years ago a= sking what codecs were needed by their users and make their decisions accor= dingly. This is just another case of Adobe not supporting it=E2=80=99s cust= omers very well.

adobe ha= s created or licensed any number of common codecs that come in QT from DV 2= 5/50/100 thru Mpeg2 and ProRes, DNxHD and just added their own support for = animation. its a respectable list of common codecs used in pro environments= . =C2=A0that said, the entire AC3 dolby stuff and not being able to install= several versions of CS was a huge blunder and they should make a peace off= ering to dolby=E2=80=A6=C2=A0

as for HAP, its an o= ddball old codec and totally small niche. ya, its for some old creaky video= playback hardware. well maybe its time the vendor for that hardware steppe= d up with a codec / encoder app to support their own hardware. its not like= *they* didn=E2=80=99t also know this was coming.. or get with apple to cre= ate a proper 64bit AVfoundation component to support their products. while = we=E2=80=99re at it, how about cinepak ? Mpeg1 ? h.263 ? sometimes you let = the past be the past. you can always dual boot into an old flavor of OSX to= encode it too=E2=80=A6=C2=A0

S

I=E2=80=99m all for third party software - After= Effects would be irrelevant at this point without it. But should we really= have to rely on third parties for multi-process rendering, sub-sample erod= e-dilate, etc. etc. Adobe makes a ton of money off of it's users, and t= hen we have apologists saying =E2=80=9Cpoor Adobe=E2=80=9D while they take = our money.

Lastly, this isn=E2=80=99t meant to imp= ly that the After Effects development team sucks, it=E2=80=99s that they li= kely don=E2=80=99t have the resources necessary to do what is needed (anoth= er decision made by the management at Adobe, not Apple).

- Dennis



On Jul 16, 2018, at 11:20 AM, Jim Tierney <AE-List@media-motion.tv> wrote:

>>=C2=A0They are responsible for insuring support for the codecs that they offer i= n their apps.
= =C2=A0
So=E2=80=A6 = they need to re-write/implement every codec that was available for Quicktim= e? You=E2=80=99re basically asking them to re-write Quicktime and I don=E2= =80=99t think you understand how much work that would be. Adobe tends to fo= cus on stuff that benefits the most users, leaving niche stuff, like HAP, t= o third parties. They can=E2=80=99t do everything, everyone wants. And it s= ounds like the AfterCodecs product has filled that gap. Although, you could= just render it out and then use an older version of CC to transcode it.=
=C2=A0
Jim
-------------------
Jim Tierney
President
Digital Anarchy
=C2=A0
=C2=A0
=C2=A0
--00000000000099643605713fe9c9--