From: "Gordon Mah" Received: from mail-pf1-f175.google.com ([209.85.210.175] verified) by media-motion.tv (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.1.0) with ESMTPS id 7175918 for AE-List@media-motion.tv; Thu, 18 Oct 2018 21:59:13 +0200 Received: by mail-pf1-f175.google.com with SMTP id j23-v6so15381269pfi.4 for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2018 13:11:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:date:subject:message-id :references:in-reply-to:to; bh=YEWfGa9pYLOV887oV7u9IzJd3D161P01wp2usm+2fOI=; b=Z7DSgdM6lSN2AF5hqHGsOyLNHEqqJ5Qs9wDgP5m6/oit0LjrR3h3g5yxaNQ9cOVkpl AtIc7r6XCvLFF/ZPRPgBzc6QE+EklUGca1NcJUV/LiiiDcBM/ENnAzmRWVFOjmwXnZf9 +0Nqlx5hcW926UNht65Dv5M+EtIUqCh9UX2aKY4ESGbgl1O0l0S2K4UfQ+lVclkI089L k7Q8qgd4/E5A5Kvm2K04ir+Z/onwvmY+nNz4uNW1WHYnqXbTBGccRWRiQ4GVVNajbQG8 BsO/mUz64EtJ2xy3ah5WDg0wV0Oz7NyvgubPbmREkMas8O0Sw26xJzWILVszmBkJ3s1A CSOA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:date :subject:message-id:references:in-reply-to:to; bh=YEWfGa9pYLOV887oV7u9IzJd3D161P01wp2usm+2fOI=; b=WuXCT/UmjrXSQKkt/5h4xgh2MDJ+aTz8l9RQRE9kT6DI5ANDZEhIDWAWIBo6RI7Jpl W3hFQJq6tQM0wPpT5btRX8ZdwoMHz0I40Hl44NRxzJZv5GYxMyU26zCQRalPFdefmpaE +33ye6h/RykTwvxu0ITGqMOia/VrlEIuiYUL2JTIq4z0ZJNvwBk8yP9EVGN8/POYNsh7 PsSTqoOdRAVt0+ymfHxkfZDMpxgRHA5zo8DwE0BthSp2dvHlYn3OXVTENnpJ9iGAnxlF w5whoassgGypjEm1Pgc/UgZfHQHIDToWcgA+F61ahMVjTJywyQL9Sn54IexovFi482b/ l3Qw== X-Gm-Message-State: ABuFfohCNE9dkkS5viFFz1PhNmdOmAabKoTxWRo2dfLgdZMtJx7BHHkS ar2K6EDEih0V7afMnQdVycDxMiSn X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACcGV61AOTMaatFz4DdO7Q7RBSMDuq85O3EFkMfVtejL2PQBc7JUd4wESHnaQ2LTBNHzaSCD+7VS7w== X-Received: by 2002:a62:3641:: with SMTP id d62-v6mr22897337pfa.97.1539893462312; Thu, 18 Oct 2018 13:11:02 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: Received: from [137.79.198.143] ([137.79.198.143]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id z63-v6sm26268328pfz.31.2018.10.18.13.11.01 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 18 Oct 2018 13:11:01 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-9FF009B5-2F1F-49DE-9D11-A566C466A48D Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2018 13:11:00 -0700 Subject: Re: [AE] Uservoice feedback website - Top post - Full Program. Mutli-Threaded Support Message-Id: <4C2AD7AC-E701-4C35-8E1E-B4A6DD26CA59@gmail.com> References: In-Reply-To: To: After Effects Mail List X-Mailer: iPad Mail (16A366) --Apple-Mail-9FF009B5-2F1F-49DE-9D11-A566C466A48D Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Part of the rationale for going to a subscription model was that it would lo= osen the rules publicly traded companies need to adhere to. You can=E2=80=99= t use that excuse any more, Adobe. Break plugins? We can run a previous version in parallel, no? Sure multi-t= hreaded is tough, but I=E2=80=99d venture that 32-to-64 bit was tougher. I=E2= =80=99d gladly wait 2 yrs w/out new features if we knew major core updates w= ere coming. -g > On Oct 18, 2018, at 12:31 PM, Stephen van Vuuren = wrote: >=20 > > However, it would break every current plugin. Let that sink in for a mom= ent. Every single plugin (and possibly script) would likely need to be rebui= lt from the ground up. > =20 > So did 32bit>64bit but the benefit was enormous. And so would it be in thi= s case. Change is easy, improvement is hard, but this is always the case in a= ny effort of worth. > =20 > I would happily lose plugins to gain core performance like that. > =20 > I=E2=80=99m interested in Victoria=E2=80=99s official statement but despit= e not knowing how things work inside Adobe, the fact is the subscription mod= el has changed how they release. I=E2=80=99m not aware of single Adobe app t= hat=E2=80=99s received a major overhaul since CC subscription launched. New a= pps yes, new major overhaul of any of their flagships, correct me if I=E2=80= =99m wrong. > =20 > From: After Effects Mail List =20 > Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2018 1:31 PM > To: After Effects Mail List > Subject: Re: [AE] Uservoice feedback website - Top post - Full Program. Mu= tli-Threaded Support > =20 > Guys instead of ganging up on the unrepresented AE team and throwing b= ack and forth a lot of speculation and conspiracy theories and LARGE TEXT EM= AILS, it is worth it to get some facts first. I have spoken to both Tim and V= ictoria about this. This is paraphrasing from a discussion I had a few month= s ago so I'm sure Tim could clarify. But I see a lot of comments like "just m= ake it multi-threaded" - anybody who knows anything about programming will u= nderstand that is a monumental task, likely equal to the core rebuild that h= appened in CC2015 - ie an entire dev cycle (but really more than one, to mak= e it stable). The original MP features were a hacky workaround that was done= the "wrong" way and added to many core issues with the program. There are e= xpectations that such a fix for the entire application is some trivial thing= .=20 > =20 > However, it would break every current plugin.=20 > =20 > Let that sink in for a moment. Every single plugin (and possibly script) w= ould likely need to be rebuilt from the ground up for a hypothetical new mul= ti-threaded AE. Not sure that would be worth it to me, given we'd likely los= e many plugins from developers who'd stop supportting their software, and ot= her ones that have stopped development.=20 > =20 > =20 > On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 1:17 PM Mike Abbott wrot= e: > Just to pull us back to topic... >=20 > On 17/10/2018 16:23, Greg Balint wrote: > ...I wish we could get some form of official response from Adobe After Eff= ects team on this. > =20 > Adobe's lack of response to this, or other matters that don't suit them, i= s a clear indication of their lip service approach to customer care. Adobe u= ser voice : a great idea if you take notice of the feedback - and totally fr= ustrating for the user when you ignore the very opinions you have asked for.= The top 'multithreading / multicore request Greg references has the best pa= rt of twice as many votes as any other. The response from Adobe: ZERO. Yet, t= hey are quite capable of responding when it suits them. >=20 > This is not a complaint against Victoria at all. We all know these policie= s are set way up the hierarchy. >=20 > I just hope (and it's a very slim hope, I know) that these sorts of thread= s might remind the powers to be that it's their customers that ultimately ma= ke their business - and that this approach, sooner or later, is going to bit= e them in the ass. >=20 > =20 >=20 > Mike A. >=20 >=20 > =20 > -- > _____________________________ > Teddy Gage > President > Shotgun Inc. > 360 VR | MOGRAPH | VFX > SHOTGUNPOST.COM > BKLYN NY 11215 --Apple-Mail-9FF009B5-2F1F-49DE-9D11-A566C466A48D Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Par= t of the rationale for going to a subscription model was that it would loose= n the rules publicly traded companies need to adhere to.  You can=E2=80= =99t use that excuse any more, Adobe.

Break plugins?  We can run a previous version in parallel, n= o?  Sure multi-threaded is tough, but I=E2=80=99d venture that 32-to-64= bit was tougher.  I=E2=80=99d gladly wait 2 yrs w/out new features if w= e knew major core updates were coming.

-g

On Oct 18, 20= 18, at 12:31 PM, Stephen van Vuuren <AE-List@media-motion.tv> wrote:

> However, it would break every current plugin. Le= t that sink in for a moment. Every single plugin (and possibly script) would= likely need to be rebuilt from the ground up.

 

So did 32bit>64bit but the benefit was enormous. A= nd so would it be in this case. Change is easy, improvement is hard, but thi= s is always the case in any effort of worth.

 

I would happily lose plugins to gain core performance= like that.

 

I=E2=80=99m interested in Victoria=E2=80=99s official= statement but despite not knowing how things work inside Adobe, the fact is= the subscription model has changed how they release. I=E2=80=99m not aware o= f single Adobe app that=E2=80=99s received a major overhaul since CC subscription launched. New apps yes, new major overhaul of any of their f= lagships, correct me if I=E2=80=99m wrong.

 

From: After Effects Mail List <AE-List@media-motion.tv>
Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2018 1:31 PM
To: After Effects Mail List <AE-List@media-motion.tv>
Subject: Re: [AE] Uservoice feedback website - Top post - Full Progra= m. Mutli-Threaded Support

 

     Guys instead of ganging up on the= unrepresented AE team and throwing back and forth a lot of speculation and c= onspiracy theories and LARGE TEXT EMAILS, it is worth it to get some facts f= irst. I have spoken to both Tim and Victoria about this. This is paraphrasing from a discussion I had a few months ago s= o I'm sure Tim could clarify. But I see a lot of comments like "just make it= multi-threaded" - anybody who knows anything about programming will underst= and that is a monumental task, likely equal to the core rebuild that happened in CC2015 - ie an entire dev= cycle (but really more than one, to make it stable). The original MP featur= es were a hacky workaround that was done the "wrong" way and added to many c= ore issues with the program. There are expectations that such a fix for the entire application is some t= rivial thing. 

 

However, it would break every current plugin. 

 

Let that sink in for a moment. Every single plugin (a= nd possibly script) would likely need to be rebuilt from the ground up for a= hypothetical new multi-threaded AE. Not sure that would be worth it to me, g= iven we'd likely lose many plugins from developers who'd stop supportting their software, and other ones that h= ave stopped development. 

 

 

On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 1:17 PM Mike Abbott <AE-List@media-motion.tv> wrote:=

Just to pull us back to topic...<= o:p>

On 17/10/2018 16:23,= Greg Balint wrote:

...I wish we could g= et some form of official response from Adobe After Effects team on this.

 

Adobe's lack of response to this, or oth= er matters that don't suit them, is a clear indication of their lip service a= pproach to customer care. Adobe user voice : a great idea if you take notice= of the feedback - and totally frustrating for the user when you ignore the very opinions you have asked f= or. The top 'multithreading / multicore request Greg references has the best= part of twice as many votes as any other. The response from Adobe: ZERO. Ye= t, they are quite capable of responding when it suits them.

This is not a complaint against Victoria= at all. We all know these policies are set way up the hierarchy.

I just hope (and it's a very slim hope, I= know) that these sorts of threads might remind the powers to be that it's t= heir customers that ultimately make their business - and that this approach,= sooner or later, is going to bite them in the ass.

 

Mike A.


 

--

_____________________= ________

Teddy Gage

President

Shotgun Inc.

360 VR | MOGRAPH | VFX

BKLYN NY 11= 215

= --Apple-Mail-9FF009B5-2F1F-49DE-9D11-A566C466A48D--