From: "Rw" Received: from p3plsmtpa08-09.prod.phx3.secureserver.net ([173.201.193.110] verified) by media-motion.tv (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.1.0) with ESMTPS id 7175983 for ae-list@media-motion.tv; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 01:59:15 +0200 Received: from mail.outlook.com ([52.125.129.130]) by :SMTPAUTH: with ESMTPSA id DINcg8ODCK0EbDINcg7aVJ; Thu, 18 Oct 2018 17:11:05 -0700 Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 00:11:04 +0000 (UTC) Sender: Rw To: After Effects Mail List Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: Subject: Re: [AE] Uservoice feedback website - Top post - Full Program. Mutli-Threaded Support MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_2488_514114122.1539907864068" X-Mailer: Outlook for iOS and Android X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfDSbS5NHPU/AJN5+sKFRYv+1oRccHTuNmM1BPVbc2k0X9JGBxyYqHOqrL7ANEiWwNJbIygZZUMIUeLTEiKpdOwC+jVRpKreYuTuiElrWBZjXlsPeI/sk M3q13K5f+xYCqqbsl2w7LirEwCoQNDAwK+lJM1Hqm/FDI8EEj+aiaOVGptR4fPNVp4vUlo648e/AUw== ------=_Part_2488_514114122.1539907864068 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =09Adobe has very little competition in their space. There are legions = of users who have invested years and serious money in their products. For e= xample, I=E2=80=99ve been an After Effects user since v1.3. Photoshop and I= llustrator even longer. When Apple derailed FCP =C2=A0- and Premiere was su= fficiently debugged at the time - I was all-in with Adobe. They got me. The= re is no real competition for them in motion graphicsediting/image manipula= tion, and even if there were I would not be likely to switch. Too much time= and money invested in what basically works. The subscription model gives A= dobe license to print money with no incentive to invest what it would take = to rewrite code from the ground up. If they were threatened with losing mar= ket share, maybe. But that=E2=80=99s not happening at the moment and it wou= ld take a few years for a newcomer to grab enough new users to make a dent.= Adobe=E2=80=99s allegiance is to shareholders, not users. So I would not hold my breath waiting for massive performance improvement. = It would be great if I turned out to be wrong about all this. =09 =09 =09Get Outlook for iOS =20 =20 On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 2:53 PM -0700, "Jim Tierney" wrote: =C2=A0 >> However, it would break every current plugin =C2=A0 Yeah, that happens periodically. It recently happened with Premiere. Howeve= r, you might not have noticed it because Adobe gave us lots of warning and = most third parties had updates ready. As long as host developers don=E2=80= =99t do this type of thing too often and give us plenty of notice, it=E2=80= =99s not a huge problem (although companies with plugin bundles with 900 pl= ugins might disagree). Among the many problems of the FCP 7 -> X transition= was that plugin developers were as surprised by the release as everyone el= se. Zero communication from Apple that anything was changing (they are bett= er these days). Adobe has always been pretty good about giving us fair warn= ing of major API changes. =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >> that it would loosen the rules publicly traded companies need to adhere = to. =C2=A0You can=E2=80=99t use that excuse any more, Adobe. =C2=A0 It loosened the rules about releasing new features and requiring there be a= paid upgrade. Announcing =E2=80=98Funding secured=E2=80=99 or some cool fe= ature and not following through with it, can still get companies in trouble= . Just ask the former chairman of Tesla. ;-) =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Cheers, Jim ------------------- Jim Tierney President Digital Anarchy =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 From: After Effects Mail List [mailto:AE-List@media-motion.tv]=20 Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2018 1:50 PM To: After Effects Mail List Subject: Re: [AE] Uservoice feedback website - Top post - Full Program. Mut= li-Threaded Support =C2=A0 =C2=A0 You know RenderGarden is just a GUI wrapper for the AE native comman= d line rendering right? Adobe is already doing it. That's a very different = ask than threading everything in the app. And also, I would argue, why wast= e resources on doing something that's already handled quite well by a third= party? People complain about the need for scripts and plugins for AE but e= very single time I open the app I'm doing something different, with a diffe= rent workflow... I'm not sure I'd want a core app that could do everything = all the current scripts and plugins do, but internally. It would be more un= stable than Maya, which was essentially its path of development. And imposs= ible to support. From what I understand the AE team is not very big as thes= e things go. Do I think there's room for speed improvement? Absolutely. Do = I want another re-write of the core to break an app I use every day in prod= uction, again, for modest speed gains? Not really. -TG =C2=A0 On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 4:29 PM Jonathan wrote: Um . . . I don=E2=80=99t get it. If RenderGarden can do it =E2=80=93 and I= =E2=80=99m a devoted fan =E2=80=93 why can=E2=80=99t Adobe? So perhaps it= =E2=80=99s not integrated as well as one might like, but you don=E2=80=99t = have to leave AE to use it and the result is seamless. It runs in the backg= round, uses as many cores as you like, can work across machines, and can sa= ve huge amounts of time. =C2=A0 What am I missing? =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Jonathan Penzner Sundance/Realtime =C2=A0 On Oct 18, 2018, at 1:11 PM, Gordon Mah wrote: =C2=A0 Part of the rationale for going to a subscription model was that it would l= oosen the rules publicly traded companies need to adhere to.=C2=A0 You can= =E2=80=99t use that excuse any more, Adobe. =C2=A0 Break plugins?=C2=A0 We can run a previous version in parallel, no?=C2=A0 S= ure multi-threaded is tough, but I=E2=80=99d venture that 32-to-64 bit was = tougher.=C2=A0 I=E2=80=99d gladly wait 2 yrs w/out new features if we knew = major core updates were coming. =C2=A0 --=20 _____________________________ Teddy Gage President Shotgun Inc. 360 VR | MOGRAPH | VFX SHOTGUNPOST.COM BKLYN NY 11215 ------=_Part_2488_514114122.1539907864068 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 =20 =20
=09
Adobe has very little competitio= n in their space. There are legions of users who have invested years and se= rious money in their products. For example, I=E2=80=99ve been an After Effe= cts user since v1.3. Photoshop and Illustrator even longer. When Apple dera= iled FCP  - and Premiere was sufficiently debugged at the time - I was= all-in with Adobe. They got me. There is no real competition for them in m= otion graphicsediting/image manipulation, and even if there were I would no= t be likely to switch. Too much time and money invested in what basically w= orks. The subscription model gives Adobe license to print money with no inc= entive to invest what it would take to rewrite code from the ground up. If = they were threatened with losing market share, maybe. But that=E2=80=99s no= t happening at the moment and it would take a few years for a newcomer to g= rab enough new users to make a dent. Adobe=E2=80=99s allegiance is to share= holders, not users.

So I would not hold my breath waiting for massi= ve performance improvement. It would be great if I turned out to be wrong a= bout all this.
=09 =09

=09
Get Outlook for iOS
=20


On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 2:53 PM -0700, "Jim Tier= ney" <AE-List@media-motion.tv> wrote:

 

>> However, it would= break every current plugin

 =

Yeah, that happens pe= riodically. It recently happened with Premiere. However, you might not have= noticed it because Adobe gave us lots of warning and most third parties ha= d updates ready. As long as host developers don=E2=80=99t do this type of t= hing too often and give us plenty of notice, it=E2=80=99s not a huge proble= m (although companies with plugin bundles with 900 plugins might disagree).= Among the many problems of the FCP 7 -> X transition was that plugin de= velopers were as surprised by the release as everyone else. Zero communicat= ion from Apple that anything was changing (they are better these days). Ado= be has always been pretty good about giving us fair warning of major API ch= anges.

 

 

>> that it would loosen the rules publicly traded com= panies need to adhere to.  You can=E2=80=99t use that excuse any more,= Adobe.

 

It loosened the rules about releasing new= features and requiring there be a paid upgrade. Announcing =E2=80=98Fundin= g secured=E2=80=99 or some cool feature and not following through with it, = can still get companies in trouble. Just ask the former chairman of Tesla. = ;-)

=  

 

Cheers,

Jim

-------------------

<= span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-s= erif";color:#1F497D">Jim Tierney

President

Digital Anarchy=

 

 <= /span>

 

 

<= span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-se= rif"">From: After Effects Mail List [mailto:AE-= List@media-motion.tv]
Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2018 1:50 PMTo: After Effects Mail List
Subject: Re: [AE] Uservoice = feedback website - Top post - Full Program. Mutli-Threaded Support

 

  You know RenderGarden is just a GUI wrapper for the AE nat= ive command line rendering right? Adobe is already doing it. That's a very = different ask than threading everything in the app. And also, I would argue= , why waste resources on doing something that's already handled quite well = by a third party? People complain about the need for scripts and plugins fo= r AE but every single time I open the app I'm doing something different, wi= th a different workflow... I'm not sure I'd want a core app that could do e= verything all the current scripts and plugins do, but internally. It would = be more unstable than Maya, which was essentially its path of development. = And impossible to support. From what I understand the AE team is not very b= ig as these things go. Do I think there's room for speed improvement? Absol= utely. Do I want another re-write of the core to break an app I use every d= ay in production, again, for modest speed gains? Not really.

=

-TG

 

On Thu, Oct 18,= 2018 at 4:29 PM Jonathan <AE= -List@media-motion.tv> wrote:

Um . . = . I don=E2=80=99t get it. If RenderGarden can do it =E2=80=93 and I=E2=80= =99m a devoted fan =E2=80=93 why can=E2=80=99t Adobe? So perhaps it=E2=80= =99s not integrated as well as one might like, but you don=E2=80=99t have t= o leave AE to use it and the result is seamless. It runs in the background,= uses as many cores as you like, can work across machines, and can save hug= e amounts of time.

&nb= sp;

What am I missing?

 

 

J= onathan Penzner

Sundance/Re= altime

 



= On Oct 18, 2018, at 1:11 PM, Gordon Mah <AE-List@media-motion.tv> wrote:

 

Part of the rationale for going to a subscrip= tion model was that it would loosen the rules publicly traded companies nee= d to adhere to.  You can=E2=80=99t use that excuse any more, Adobe.

&nb= sp;

Break p= lugins?  We can run a previous version in parallel, no?  Sure mul= ti-threaded is tough, but I=E2=80=99d venture that 32-to-64 bit was tougher= .  I=E2=80=99d gladly wait 2 yrs w/out new features if we knew major c= ore updates were coming.


=

 

--=

<= span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt">_____________________________

Teddy Gag= e

President

Shotgun Inc.

360 VR | MOGRAPH | VFX

BKLYN NY 11215

<= /div>
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