From: "Rick Gerard" Received: from bosmailout04.eigbox.net ([66.96.189.4] verified) by media-motion.tv (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.1.0) with ESMTPS id 7187659 for ae-list@media-motion.tv; Fri, 09 Nov 2018 17:25:08 +0100 Received: from bosmailscan03.eigbox.net ([10.20.15.3]) by bosmailout04.eigbox.net with esmtp (Exim) id 1gL9mw-000574-Rp for AE-List@media-motion.tv; Fri, 09 Nov 2018 11:37:42 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mstrg.com; s=dkim; h=Sender:Message-Id:In-Reply-To:To:References:Date:Subject: Mime-Version:Content-Type:From:Reply-To:Cc:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=8bBoPR2jc7lQgJ23NTq30iZK9SY2K+D0Yjymh+8xgZo=; b=fHP2W5xVP1SM2jopcDkBs8M1y7 sA/C63Ni1GtkaHRx5UC9MgZ3q9S4zzBzqVO6PKAUHKotnw0V2koNX8RfN1NBhg7ipa2PHZGWz3vty 3MrJFIsYWk4utbDi0oIqIGNFy1ZNnauTgnlBXa0qpd6afPpJb86hwvQZfMvoGm8s8Neq9aD/sUaFT Sh/mzuot5KJJCxXJSUn1LubbDs2aneFnw8udzf27lcdXkrdGCIvousG8o/Ws1jWXIkfWLgHQERHPG lCqcPEjOmD81aagMu1fKW8QDRKc42rcnm1C4M+yxYQD500DGbwsdPZfGuv52LBRUgfYOfbeOocglg Y6kqe3kA==; Received: from [10.115.3.33] (helo=bosimpout13) by bosmailscan03.eigbox.net with esmtp (Exim) id 1gL9mw-00042P-ON for AE-List@media-motion.tv; Fri, 09 Nov 2018 11:37:42 -0500 Received: from bosauthsmtp11.yourhostingaccount.com ([10.20.18.11]) by bosimpout13 with id xsdf1y00K0EKspE01sdiRu; Fri, 09 Nov 2018 11:37:42 -0500 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.2 cv=XsOKARN9 c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=anyYG9rjTBM1sAjEBQ8Cew==:117 a=+fNCsvVYfgsOWX7dqrClyQ==:17 a=JHtHm7312UAA:10 a=MOoPLM9SH6MA:10 a=RqOAJGx8AAAA:8 a=GazFBABTAAAA:8 a=1gmUKIhD1dc7EP_IFOoA:9 a=FQEmaH0CQZ0tvDWa6K0Z7W0SsEI=:19 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=PdiwS_sFxbsrVt8veZIA:9 a=ttMdfMt0kmGsByaB:21 a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10 a=2dckCFoST8samHM_Kv05:22 Received: from [69.4.147.69] (port=62545 helo=[192.168.1.4]) by bosauthsmtp11.eigbox.net with esmtpa (Exim) id 1gL9mt-0005Lb-BN for AE-List@media-motion.tv; Fri, 09 Nov 2018 11:37:39 -0500 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_7541103A-422B-4D28-8043-FCFD20298E59" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.0 \(3445.100.39\)) Subject: Re: [AE] smoothing out 24p Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2018 08:37:36 -0800 References: To: After Effects Mail List In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <9B7E939E-95BB-4EB5-B2A8-8756066C8B53@mstrg.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.100.39) X-EN-UserInfo: c662172581359b31880c5d4c8e0aae06:931c98230c6409dcc37fa7e93b490c27 X-EN-AuthUser: rg@hottek.net Sender: Rick Gerard X-EN-OrigIP: 69.4.147.69 X-EN-OrigHost: unknown --Apple-Mail=_7541103A-422B-4D28-8043-FCFD20298E59 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 There is a thing called critical pan speed. The combination of movement, = frame rate and retinal retention mean that any movement in the frame = that falls in the range of critical speeds will judder. The way to = reduce the problem is to shoot at higher frame rates. Unfortunately, = higher frame rates mean less motion blur and we like to have motion blur = so the footage looks more like a movie and less like a video.=20 If you are stuck with problematic footage that was shot at 24 (or any = frame rate) you have two options. Change the timing of the shot, which = may result in audio problems or unnatural action, or force some motion = blur or use some software to generate extra frames to try and hide the = problem. All you have to do to change the timing is change the = interpretation of the footage (File>Interpret Footage>Main). Forcing = motion blur can be done with CC Force Motion blur, but really good = =E2=80=9Cnew=E2=80=9D frames can really only be generated with 3rd party = software. Twixtor is really good at interpolating extra frames. If you want more = frames and you want the timing to stay the same then you have to = increase the frame rate of the comp (sequence in Premiere Pro) and use = something like Twixtor. Force Motion Blur will work when the frame rate = for the footage and the comp are the same, but the results are not as = good. I hope this makes sense to you. The ASC handbook has had critical = panning speed tables in it for a zillion years. If you don=E2=80=99t pay = attention and check on the set it=E2=80=99s pretty easy to end up with = shots that can=E2=80=99t really be fixed in a pleasing way.=20 Here are a couple of articles from the After Effects FAQ section of the = Adobe Forum on avoiding and overcoming the problem: "Avoiding judder in motion graphics" by Rick Gerard = "Best practices for creating text and vector graphics for video=E2=80=9D = I hope this helps. > On Nov 9, 2018, at 7:42 AM, David Baud = wrote: >=20 > Following are I think your options: > If you are dealing with unsync clip (no sound matching critical), you = could interpret your footage to play at 23.976fps, and they will play a = little faster at 29.97fps (duration will be shorter). > If you are editing with interlaced footage (kind of unusual these days = other than for broadcast masters), then you could add pulldown during = your AE export. > Otherwise you will have to recreate these missing frames one way or = another=E2=80=A6 using a plugin like Twixtor... >=20 > David Baud > Colorist & Finishing Editor > david at kosmos-productions.com >> On Nov 9, 2018, at 7:12 , Byron Nash > wrote: >>=20 >> I'm drawing a blank here. Tried a few solutions and haven't gotten = the solution yet. I have some 23.976 footage that I'm using in a 29.97 = sequence. I'd like to use optical flow to eliminate that judder frame = that is present when putting 24p footage into 30p timelines. What's the = way to get this done? I feel like I've done it before. Checking the = frame blending box doesn't seem to fix it. I'm not changing the speed of = the clip. >>=20 >> Thanks >=20 --Apple-Mail=_7541103A-422B-4D28-8043-FCFD20298E59 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 There= is a thing called critical pan speed. The combination of movement, = frame rate and retinal retention mean that any movement in the frame = that falls in the range of critical speeds will judder. The way to = reduce the problem is to shoot at higher frame rates. Unfortunately, = higher frame rates mean less motion blur and we like to have motion blur = so the footage looks more like a movie and less like a video. 

If you are stuck with = problematic footage that was shot at 24 (or any frame rate) you have two = options. Change the timing of the shot, which may result in audio = problems or unnatural action, or force some motion blur or use some = software to generate extra frames to try and hide the problem. All you = have to do to change the timing is change the interpretation of the = footage (File>Interpret Footage>Main). Forcing motion blur can be = done with CC Force Motion blur, but really good =E2=80=9Cnew=E2=80=9D = frames can really only be generated with 3rd party software.

Twixtor is really good = at interpolating extra frames. If you want more frames and you want the = timing to stay the same then you have to increase the frame rate of the = comp (sequence in Premiere Pro) and use something like Twixtor. Force = Motion Blur will work when the frame rate for the footage and the comp = are the same, but the results are not as good.

I hope this makes sense to you. The ASC = handbook has had critical panning speed tables in it for a zillion = years. If you don=E2=80=99t pay attention and check on the set it=E2=80=99= s pretty easy to end up with shots that can=E2=80=99t really be fixed in = a pleasing way. 

Here are a couple of articles from the After Effects FAQ = section of the Adobe Forum on avoiding and overcoming the = problem:
"Avoiding judder in motion graphics" by Rick = Gerard
"Best practices for creating text and vector graphics for = video=E2=80=9D

I hope this helps.

On Nov = 9, 2018, at 7:42 AM, David Baud <AE-List@media-motion.tv> wrote:

Following are I think your options:
If you are dealing = with unsync clip (no sound matching critical), you could interpret your = footage to play at 23.976fps, and they will play a little faster at = 29.97fps (duration will be shorter).
If you are editing = with interlaced footage (kind of unusual these days other than for = broadcast masters), then you could add pulldown during your AE = export.
Otherwise you will have to recreate these = missing frames one way or another=E2=80=A6 using a plugin like = Twixtor...

David Baud
Colorist & = Finishing = Editor
david = at kosmos-productions.com

On Nov 9, 2018, at 7:12 , Byron Nash <AE-List@media-motion.tv> wrote:

I'm drawing a blank here. Tried a few solutions and haven't = gotten the solution yet. I have some 23.976 footage that I'm using in a = 29.97 sequence. I'd like to use optical flow to eliminate that judder = frame that is present when putting 24p footage into 30p timelines. = What's the way to get this done? I feel like I've done it before. = Checking the frame blending box doesn't seem to fix it. I'm not changing = the speed of the clip.

Thanks


= --Apple-Mail=_7541103A-422B-4D28-8043-FCFD20298E59--