From: "Jim Curtis" Received: from sonic310-27.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com ([98.137.69.153] verified) by media-motion.tv (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.1.0) with ESMTP id 7188029 for AE-List@media-motion.tv; Fri, 09 Nov 2018 19:03:09 +0100 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=flash.net; s=s2048; t=1541787342; bh=63qh5/ZSr5Xx1Zo+OUYTAwQtzIinNDfzGvKULV1SsCs=; h=From:Subject:Date:References:To:In-Reply-To:From:Subject; b=IBpGQhNiU4vVVs1rfeHBpgHP+TBPVD0IWmCYeyHhGn5lgu/5Ijw3fqdL/X3U7uG9Fl1n0BuYnCjxQoyDGR1l4qpbe69zvyf+zuM4djdnhNRCQwYs/72kSJ2KiIWnIQRvhqsJzq9VJyVowxXkpHiOepO8mtRK8/veC9xfYTYL5j2E17Gg2HxHKzvG+uSSe5f9ZGnCb2aBVbIeDAj7BA0+notGevM/FzOAV8lbYKo+ISZBrKM4S24mSl/siwIcqOpeI3MGF9dpdZjVc/sbeqxrlPKXz8OPc+zhX0hkH1vK4SDowdOydC2lOS5pzwwEAGI7qU8ATRUIkoq4721XDZjZMw== X-YMail-OSG: ya6P7A4VM1llm2ltrSNtk5Ba1A_rCb8M2L.X4BsEzhHML37KYkZzU0gd5BWrenq jK1LftSTVfgyuiEQ3U2F.pBJo8qhXjia__aAPkB2ABNpknlOyWdXnIzB7fvxHd6lUOtvKTxpxx.R QF.GIZDxGvFIF0L5Tw1yU72gpFldg5.G585tzAgcXf16ceuLHoVPHdnwQWoDh6yHXQyUR49DBy7w nUB3yNr21iPiwbjNaVAB603Rp9zg6QjreeW1eQXwJkmIfzrG3T8qwHEogBFWiHCYTwmCTomhDgoj L8kfkGmszn1uMaQOuCMmy.zjlCoA5DEgmVGTUzFj_lMGkWtEDmQQhmcjuvPjkdm2ZlhXa1I0qN39 ohB3y3p5j._dvgTm436SZNmg.DydrP3a_gS8t4H4CGvOHiMTLB9zk6QsVqyhJC9mnQhOgxXeN_63 xzGJxaH6OZBXka9TluCLlU2vrGQOad0wE8b78GEszkP5mLoo403B79C5bn32HrLPnuxlXwtPLKwi KLIsmhZWGrHwgBAn5ARzzcgxShVrQmPOlIG72E5cYrIiGil7jziFq8uFPXsItqUDIrD9O1hsd.qC TR2N.Ymv8WUMno9bj3vseOMeveTjPcx9w98QNmklitKqbKIU1U7FyOHSvp3eios6DzU.KbICKPWP rJNyzF9J0znjDCDLc70OGrpwo4pHdQyP81..snsLj_P37lqsK1AEmTGhzVCWuqlT.CKx0jxC0B_p nFslylqoZF66prlCdTIq1oPr0BINuNudCsSV90EcZBhOl4DNYGF2TmTrXkHxCLdai7Vhctkh.swQ ASDg1kZQ7GT2dHald9SPv1Oo37LWcwcn0hhGCA8_iLZDPagTPbdsZXx_lu5_77CwDs1FKfhkiKQX DU3tDunqlwLwI72e_4JIBd.uy0O4GqvdC4LQdQxSi9xWK1Ewh7Jorcq8pX3HVjf6cKNghFbZoDRs rq7Ctej5JcT7bquE6QhsMemTLB8bODzr05MeB2JGz7PdMLY.77bMIX3IlggwbhlOV6GrO8XW.bli dtnXKvM2Yx4C_r.lUaAaOCYPuO_IS0w7vimyZu9hFkPX9YHCJg_wCwANmBYKQT6NPV1RTF9Om483 q6w-- Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic310.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Fri, 9 Nov 2018 18:15:42 +0000 Received: from 104-48-143-159.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net (EHLO mac-pro.attlocal.net) ([104.48.143.159]) by smtp420.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (Oath Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID fc355abd4a44121b1f9182a0c8c0480f for ; Fri, 09 Nov 2018 18:15:38 +0000 (UTC) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_1E532D48-C6ED-4E28-9D72-BA40EFB75C13" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) Subject: Re: [AE] smoothing out 24p Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2018 12:15:37 -0600 References: To: After Effects List In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <73C68EA9-A63D-4E40-8D46-1B67EB4409DD@flash.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) --Apple-Mail=_1E532D48-C6ED-4E28-9D72-BA40EFB75C13 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 I=E2=80=99m old and I don=E2=80=99t like the new term for what I was = taught in film school is =E2=80=9Cstrobing.=E2=80=9D I never heard of = =E2=80=9Cjudder=E2=80=9D until film started being transferred to tape = and then the tape was posted on tape. =20 And we hated it! :) > On Nov 9, 2018, at 10:37 AM, Rick Gerard = wrote: >=20 > There is a thing called critical pan speed. The combination of = movement, frame rate and retinal retention mean that any movement in the = frame that falls in the range of critical speeds will judder. The way to = reduce the problem is to shoot at higher frame rates. Unfortunately, = higher frame rates mean less motion blur and we like to have motion blur = so the footage looks more like a movie and less like a video.=20 >=20 > If you are stuck with problematic footage that was shot at 24 (or any = frame rate) you have two options. Change the timing of the shot, which = may result in audio problems or unnatural action, or force some motion = blur or use some software to generate extra frames to try and hide the = problem. All you have to do to change the timing is change the = interpretation of the footage (File>Interpret Footage>Main). Forcing = motion blur can be done with CC Force Motion blur, but really good = =E2=80=9Cnew=E2=80=9D frames can really only be generated with 3rd party = software. >=20 > Twixtor is really good at interpolating extra frames. If you want more = frames and you want the timing to stay the same then you have to = increase the frame rate of the comp (sequence in Premiere Pro) and use = something like Twixtor. Force Motion Blur will work when the frame rate = for the footage and the comp are the same, but the results are not as = good. >=20 > I hope this makes sense to you. The ASC handbook has had critical = panning speed tables in it for a zillion years. If you don=E2=80=99t pay = attention and check on the set it=E2=80=99s pretty easy to end up with = shots that can=E2=80=99t really be fixed in a pleasing way.=20 >=20 > Here are a couple of articles from the After Effects FAQ section of = the Adobe Forum on avoiding and overcoming the problem: > "Avoiding judder in motion graphics" by Rick Gerard = > "Best practices for creating text and vector graphics for video=E2=80=9D= = >=20 > I hope this helps. >=20 >> On Nov 9, 2018, at 7:42 AM, David Baud > wrote: >>=20 >> Following are I think your options: >> If you are dealing with unsync clip (no sound matching critical), you = could interpret your footage to play at 23.976fps, and they will play a = little faster at 29.97fps (duration will be shorter). >> If you are editing with interlaced footage (kind of unusual these = days other than for broadcast masters), then you could add pulldown = during your AE export. >> Otherwise you will have to recreate these missing frames one way or = another=E2=80=A6 using a plugin like Twixtor... >>=20 >> David Baud >> Colorist & Finishing Editor >> david at kosmos-productions.com >>> On Nov 9, 2018, at 7:12 , Byron Nash > wrote: >>>=20 >>> I'm drawing a blank here. Tried a few solutions and haven't gotten = the solution yet. I have some 23.976 footage that I'm using in a 29.97 = sequence. I'd like to use optical flow to eliminate that judder frame = that is present when putting 24p footage into 30p timelines. What's the = way to get this done? I feel like I've done it before. Checking the = frame blending box doesn't seem to fix it. I'm not changing the speed of = the clip. >>>=20 >>> Thanks >>=20 >=20 --Apple-Mail=_1E532D48-C6ED-4E28-9D72-BA40EFB75C13 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 I=E2=80= =99m old and I don=E2=80=99t like the new term for what I was taught in = film school is =E2=80=9Cstrobing.=E2=80=9D  I never heard of = =E2=80=9Cjudder=E2=80=9D until film started being transferred to tape = and then the tape was posted on tape.  

And we hated it!
:)



On Nov = 9, 2018, at 10:37 AM, Rick Gerard <AE-List@media-motion.tv> wrote:

There is a thing = called critical pan speed. The combination of movement, frame rate and = retinal retention mean that any movement in the frame that falls in the = range of critical speeds will judder. The way to reduce the problem is = to shoot at higher frame rates. Unfortunately, higher frame rates mean = less motion blur and we like to have motion blur so the footage looks = more like a movie and less like a video. 

If you are stuck with problematic = footage that was shot at 24 (or any frame rate) you have two options. = Change the timing of the shot, which may result in audio problems or = unnatural action, or force some motion blur or use some software to = generate extra frames to try and hide the problem. All you have to do to = change the timing is change the interpretation of the footage = (File>Interpret Footage>Main). Forcing motion blur can be done = with CC Force Motion blur, but really good =E2=80=9Cnew=E2=80=9D frames = can really only be generated with 3rd party software.

Twixtor is really good = at interpolating extra frames. If you want more frames and you want the = timing to stay the same then you have to increase the frame rate of the = comp (sequence in Premiere Pro) and use something like Twixtor. Force = Motion Blur will work when the frame rate for the footage and the comp = are the same, but the results are not as good.

I hope this makes sense to you. The ASC = handbook has had critical panning speed tables in it for a zillion = years. If you don=E2=80=99t pay attention and check on the set it=E2=80=99= s pretty easy to end up with shots that can=E2=80=99t really be fixed in = a pleasing way. 

Here are a couple of articles from the After Effects FAQ = section of the Adobe Forum on avoiding and overcoming the = problem:
"Avoiding judder in motion graphics" by Rick = Gerard
"Best practices for creating text and vector graphics for = video=E2=80=9D

I hope this helps.

On Nov = 9, 2018, at 7:42 AM, David Baud <AE-List@media-motion.tv> wrote:

Following are I think your options:
If you are dealing = with unsync clip (no sound matching critical), you could interpret your = footage to play at 23.976fps, and they will play a little faster at = 29.97fps (duration will be shorter).
If you are editing = with interlaced footage (kind of unusual these days other than for = broadcast masters), then you could add pulldown during your AE = export.
Otherwise you will have to recreate these = missing frames one way or another=E2=80=A6 using a plugin like = Twixtor...

David Baud
Colorist & = Finishing = Editor
david = at kosmos-productions.com

On Nov 9, 2018, at 7:12 , Byron Nash <AE-List@media-motion.tv> wrote:

I'm drawing a blank here. Tried a few solutions and haven't = gotten the solution yet. I have some 23.976 footage that I'm using in a = 29.97 sequence. I'd like to use optical flow to eliminate that judder = frame that is present when putting 24p footage into 30p timelines. = What's the way to get this done? I feel like I've done it before. = Checking the frame blending box doesn't seem to fix it. I'm not changing = the speed of the clip.

Thanks



= --Apple-Mail=_1E532D48-C6ED-4E28-9D72-BA40EFB75C13--