From: "Warren Heaton" Received: from pv38p41im-ztdg02071201.me.com ([17.133.179.24] verified) by media-motion.tv (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.1.0) with ESMTPS id 7188042 for AE-List@media-motion.tv; Fri, 09 Nov 2018 19:35:02 +0100 Received: from process-dkim-sign-daemon.pv38p41im-ztdg02071201.me.com by pv38p41im-ztdg02071201.me.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 8.0.2.2.20180531 64bit (built May 31 2018)) id <0PHX00300VLERO00@pv38p41im-ztdg02071201.me.com> for AE-List@media-motion.tv; Fri, 09 Nov 2018 18:47:21 +0000 (GMT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=me.com; s=04042017; t=1541789241; bh=ANOYNkss9hH6FF99Auz58GQVjD2McfujdwICqWcN0H0=; h=From:Content-type:MIME-version:Subject:Date:To:Message-id; b=pnEOtqpCB9+D7x+HAErqBYoPj9i2fHQVJ2Z6TjoF/TbD6CAb45xn4x0LhD416OO7u /vq1cCKdipuRhn3omuKyzkwinBTUkz9/fi49btdn0ehDNQLMn7ydUoWUALvbqU/DAw oevVDcORf8Tl6PSiQbNx+K0MGdeoqO03REPhsb7OEaFH10Xfttbg9RrMvbW7zMFE/7 +AFkTHUP3Z1WBPJLlaUVOVLYC/5tPXyobYIGcZtQUtzVgdH0JPc6lcjmPcbvAmbeKg xXC33fNzPHAKCtkArKio/S5JF1lgncKnnNPRsFh3VqxDm3zHZZfvDTFAU0uuVgIREC YA5yh7R1GjmCw== Received: from icloud.com ([127.0.0.1]) by pv38p41im-ztdg02071201.me.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 8.0.2.2.20180531 64bit (built May 31 2018)) with ESMTPSA id <0PHX00HHQW6V1Q30@pv38p41im-ztdg02071201.me.com> for AE-List@media-motion.tv; Fri, 09 Nov 2018 18:47:20 +0000 (GMT) X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1015 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1807170000 definitions=main-1811090170 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:,, definitions=2018-11-09_06:,, signatures=0 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_280AE198-38AA-4BD1-A397-1960617D0F07" MIME-version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Subject: Re: [AE] smoothing out 24p Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2018 10:47:18 -0800 References: To: After Effects Mail List In-reply-to: Message-id: <0101AAE6-8E18-4A65-A6E3-861C53179E75@me.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) --Apple-Mail=_280AE198-38AA-4BD1-A397-1960617D0F07 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 I=E2=80=99ve always considered strobing to be what happens in camera = (usually an early HD camera during a pan rather than a film camera) and = judder to be what happens when animating in After Effects. Now that = they=E2=80=99re so easy to use interchangeably, maybe we need a new term = like =E2=80=9Cstrudding=E2=80=9D? (I hope some else is laughing at that = like I am.) -Warren > On Nov 9, 2018, at 10:15 AM, Jim Curtis = wrote: >=20 > I=E2=80=99m old and I don=E2=80=99t like the new term for what I was = taught in film school is =E2=80=9Cstrobing.=E2=80=9D I never heard of = =E2=80=9Cjudder=E2=80=9D until film started being transferred to tape = and then the tape was posted on tape. =20 >=20 > And we hated it! >=20 > :) >=20 >=20 >=20 >> On Nov 9, 2018, at 10:37 AM, Rick Gerard > wrote: >>=20 >> There is a thing called critical pan speed. The combination of = movement, frame rate and retinal retention mean that any movement in the = frame that falls in the range of critical speeds will judder. The way to = reduce the problem is to shoot at higher frame rates. Unfortunately, = higher frame rates mean less motion blur and we like to have motion blur = so the footage looks more like a movie and less like a video.=20 >>=20 >> If you are stuck with problematic footage that was shot at 24 (or any = frame rate) you have two options. Change the timing of the shot, which = may result in audio problems or unnatural action, or force some motion = blur or use some software to generate extra frames to try and hide the = problem. All you have to do to change the timing is change the = interpretation of the footage (File>Interpret Footage>Main). Forcing = motion blur can be done with CC Force Motion blur, but really good = =E2=80=9Cnew=E2=80=9D frames can really only be generated with 3rd party = software. >>=20 >> Twixtor is really good at interpolating extra frames. If you want = more frames and you want the timing to stay the same then you have to = increase the frame rate of the comp (sequence in Premiere Pro) and use = something like Twixtor. Force Motion Blur will work when the frame rate = for the footage and the comp are the same, but the results are not as = good. >>=20 >> I hope this makes sense to you. The ASC handbook has had critical = panning speed tables in it for a zillion years. If you don=E2=80=99t pay = attention and check on the set it=E2=80=99s pretty easy to end up with = shots that can=E2=80=99t really be fixed in a pleasing way.=20 >>=20 >> Here are a couple of articles from the After Effects FAQ section of = the Adobe Forum on avoiding and overcoming the problem: >> "Avoiding judder in motion graphics" by Rick Gerard = >> "Best practices for creating text and vector graphics for video=E2=80=9D= = >>=20 >> I hope this helps. >>=20 >>> On Nov 9, 2018, at 7:42 AM, David Baud > wrote: >>>=20 >>> Following are I think your options: >>> If you are dealing with unsync clip (no sound matching critical), = you could interpret your footage to play at 23.976fps, and they will = play a little faster at 29.97fps (duration will be shorter). >>> If you are editing with interlaced footage (kind of unusual these = days other than for broadcast masters), then you could add pulldown = during your AE export. >>> Otherwise you will have to recreate these missing frames one way or = another=E2=80=A6 using a plugin like Twixtor... >>>=20 >>> David Baud >>> Colorist & Finishing Editor >>> david at kosmos-productions.com >>>> On Nov 9, 2018, at 7:12 , Byron Nash > wrote: >>>>=20 >>>> I'm drawing a blank here. Tried a few solutions and haven't gotten = the solution yet. I have some 23.976 footage that I'm using in a 29.97 = sequence. I'd like to use optical flow to eliminate that judder frame = that is present when putting 24p footage into 30p timelines. What's the = way to get this done? I feel like I've done it before. Checking the = frame blending box doesn't seem to fix it. I'm not changing the speed of = the clip. >>>>=20 >>>> Thanks >>>=20 >>=20 >=20 --Apple-Mail=_280AE198-38AA-4BD1-A397-1960617D0F07 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
I=E2=80=99ve always considered strobing to be = what happens in camera (usually an early HD camera during a pan rather = than a film camera) and judder to be what happens when animating in = After Effects.  Now that they=E2=80=99re so easy to use = interchangeably, maybe we need a new term like =E2=80=9Cstrudding=E2=80=9D= ?  (I hope some else is laughing at that like I am.)



-Warren




On Nov 9, 2018, at 10:15 AM, = Jim Curtis <AE-List@media-motion.tv> wrote:

I=E2=80=99m old and I = don=E2=80=99t like the new term for what I was taught in film school is = =E2=80=9Cstrobing.=E2=80=9D  I never heard of =E2=80=9Cjudder=E2=80=9D= until film started being transferred to tape and then the tape was = posted on tape.  

And we hated it!

:)



On Nov 9, 2018, at 10:37 AM, = Rick Gerard <AE-List@media-motion.tv> wrote:

There is a thing = called critical pan speed. The combination of movement, frame rate and = retinal retention mean that any movement in the frame that falls in the = range of critical speeds will judder. The way to reduce the problem is = to shoot at higher frame rates. Unfortunately, higher frame rates mean = less motion blur and we like to have motion blur so the footage looks = more like a movie and less like a video. 

If you are stuck with problematic = footage that was shot at 24 (or any frame rate) you have two options. = Change the timing of the shot, which may result in audio problems or = unnatural action, or force some motion blur or use some software to = generate extra frames to try and hide the problem. All you have to do to = change the timing is change the interpretation of the footage = (File>Interpret Footage>Main). Forcing motion blur can be done = with CC Force Motion blur, but really good =E2=80=9Cnew=E2=80=9D frames = can really only be generated with 3rd party software.

Twixtor is really good = at interpolating extra frames. If you want more frames and you want the = timing to stay the same then you have to increase the frame rate of the = comp (sequence in Premiere Pro) and use something like Twixtor. Force = Motion Blur will work when the frame rate for the footage and the comp = are the same, but the results are not as good.

I hope this makes sense to you. The ASC = handbook has had critical panning speed tables in it for a zillion = years. If you don=E2=80=99t pay attention and check on the set it=E2=80=99= s pretty easy to end up with shots that can=E2=80=99t really be fixed in = a pleasing way. 

Here are a couple of articles from the After Effects FAQ = section of the Adobe Forum on avoiding and overcoming the = problem:
"Avoiding judder in motion graphics" by Rick = Gerard
"Best practices for creating text and vector graphics for = video=E2=80=9D

I hope this helps.

On Nov = 9, 2018, at 7:42 AM, David Baud <AE-List@media-motion.tv> wrote:

Following are I think your options:
If you are dealing = with unsync clip (no sound matching critical), you could interpret your = footage to play at 23.976fps, and they will play a little faster at = 29.97fps (duration will be shorter).
If you are editing = with interlaced footage (kind of unusual these days other than for = broadcast masters), then you could add pulldown during your AE = export.
Otherwise you will have to recreate these = missing frames one way or another=E2=80=A6 using a plugin like = Twixtor...

David Baud
Colorist & = Finishing = Editor
david = at kosmos-productions.com

On Nov 9, 2018, at 7:12 , Byron Nash <AE-List@media-motion.tv> wrote:

I'm drawing a blank here. Tried a few solutions and haven't = gotten the solution yet. I have some 23.976 footage that I'm using in a = 29.97 sequence. I'd like to use optical flow to eliminate that judder = frame that is present when putting 24p footage into 30p timelines. = What's the way to get this done? I feel like I've done it before. = Checking the frame blending box doesn't seem to fix it. I'm not changing = the speed of the clip.

Thanks




= --Apple-Mail=_280AE198-38AA-4BD1-A397-1960617D0F07--