From: "Adam Mercado" Received: from common.maple.relay.mailchannels.net ([23.83.214.38] verified) by media-motion.tv (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.1.0) with ESMTPS id 7228634 for AE-List@media-motion.tv; Thu, 10 Jan 2019 20:54:26 +0100 X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|adam@influxx.com Received: from relay.mailchannels.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3259712449E for ; Thu, 10 Jan 2019 20:03:38 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a25.g.dreamhost.com (unknown [100.96.36.160]) (Authenticated sender: dreamhost) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id D3B9312439C for ; Thu, 10 Jan 2019 20:03:37 +0000 (UTC) X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|adam@influxx.com Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a25.g.dreamhost.com (pop.dreamhost.com [64.90.62.162]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384) by 0.0.0.0:2500 (trex/5.16.2); Thu, 10 Jan 2019 20:03:38 +0000 X-MC-Relay: Neutral X-MailChannels-SenderId: dreamhost|x-authsender|adam@influxx.com X-MailChannels-Auth-Id: dreamhost X-Unite-Wide-Eyed: 7ea092e372a497ac_1547150618035_2978354492 X-MC-Loop-Signature: 1547150618035:3336535373 X-MC-Ingress-Time: 1547150618034 Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a25.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a25.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4034B807CA for ; Thu, 10 Jan 2019 12:03:37 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=influxx.com; h=from :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:date :subject:message-id:references:in-reply-to:to; s=influxx.com; bh=4UflNxK55ic6XbuYgOcO/ENpp7Q=; b=q2GsmfU3OR8+7aEdbMIsOMLVsRaK MpRGXtTBeFRPdMe7EtQJw4VB2rNI4proUSwbfq7QJOK/xZvIRzwArezURJRTyM0I FYYSX27Sx6W/axvTvtyX7Gw0DpmJYqILJ4rsQgZQV86XErjJmSPGvJIOg7kS1Oy0 USQgO1V0mRB59bw= Received: from [192.168.1.64] (107-194-133-191.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net [107.194.133.191]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: adam@influxx.com) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a25.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D7EC8807A7 for ; Thu, 10 Jan 2019 12:03:36 -0800 (PST) X-DH-BACKEND: pdx1-sub0-mail-a25 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-33A54865-7000-4878-BA61-9E504EA09C25 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2019 12:03:33 -0800 Subject: Re: [AE] Clients requesting RAW files Message-Id: <4E941382-9C1B-4AA2-8D92-A55B13DF8345@influxx.com> References: In-Reply-To: To: After Effects Mail List X-Mailer: iPad Mail (15G77) X-VR-OUT-STATUS: OK X-VR-OUT-SCORE: -100 X-VR-OUT-SPAMCAUSE: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedtledrfeefgddufeegucetufdoteggodetrfdotffvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuggftfghnshhusghstghrihgsvgdpffftgfetoffjqffuvfenuceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucesvcftvggtihhpihgvnhhtshculddquddttddmnecujfgurhephfgtgfggfffukfhfjgfvofesrgejmherhhdtjeenucfhrhhomheptegurghmucfovghrtggrughouceorggurghmsehinhhflhhugiigrdgtohhmqeenucffohhmrghinhepshihuggvfhigihhnkhdrtghomhdpphhrohhvihguvghotghorghlihhtihhonhdrtghomhdpghhumhhrohgrugdrtghomhdpvhhimhgvohdrtghomhenucfkphepuddtjedrudelgedrudeffedrudeludenucfrrghrrghmpehmohguvgepshhmthhppdhhvghloheplgduledvrdduieekrddurdeigegnpdhinhgvthepuddtjedrudelgedrudeffedrudeluddprhgvthhurhhnqdhprghthheptegurghmucfovghrtggrughouceorggurghmsehinhhflhhugiigrdgtohhmqedpmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpegruggrmhesihhnfhhluhiggidrtghomhdpnhhrtghpthhtoheptefgqdfnihhsthesmhgvughirgdqmhhothhiohhnrdhtvhenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedt --Apple-Mail-33A54865-7000-4878-BA61-9E504EA09C25 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This has become a trend in my experience, over the years clients have come t= o expect/demand everything.=20 The question is not whether you need to hand over everything to them, the qu= estion is whether you want to work with them again. Stand your ground and th= ey will do find someone else. It=E2=80=99s not like this stuff is difficult a= nymore. The software and hardware has removed so many pain points over the y= ears that what we do is basically a commodity. I learned that the hard way, a= fter asking the very same question several times. Every time I stood my grou= nd I never worked with that client again. Whether there was a contract or no= t.=20 And even with the contract, if I ever stood my ground in contract negotiatio= ns, the point of contention was always raw files. They want them, don=E2=80=99= t want to pay more for them, if I stood my ground it was bye bye.=20 So I=E2=80=99ve learned long ago to stop fighting that battle. If they=E2=80= =99re going to take my files to someone else, they=E2=80=99re going to do so= one way or another. I may as well make a few bucks off them before they go.= And they may even stay. It=E2=80=99s a losing battle either way as far as I= can tell. Others may have more positive experience but to me that=E2=80=99s= the way the game is played out these days > On Jan 10, 2019, at 11:23 AM, David Torno wrote:= >=20 > Raw files are NOT part of deliverables unless that was explicitly agreed u= pon in the contract up front by all parties involved. >=20 > This applies regardless of it being a company or an individual freelancer c= ontracted for the work. >=20 > These are details that must be made clear at the beginning unfortunately t= hough. Discussing these details after the fact presents very awkward situati= ons like this that can and usually leave a bad taste in both parties mouths.= Jeopardizing any future collaboration. >=20 > Many clients have a misconception that any and all files related to the pr= ocess are theirs for the taking. That is incorrect. They must understand tha= t they are contracting a company or individual to produce a single FINAL pro= duct. If they want versions, they pay for that work. They want to archive? T= hen they can pay you to do so. Yes handing over those files will guarantee t= hat they will reuse them later and by a cheaper individual too. I see it hap= pen a lot. >=20 > If you are willing to give away your proprietary work, tools, or unique te= chniques for free or even for compensation... that is something only you can= choose to do. >=20 > Good luck. >=20 >=20 > David Torno > 818.391.6060 > -------------------- > www.sydefxink.com (work history) > https://vimeo.com/davidtorno (work samples & breakdowns) > https://gumroad.com/davidtorno > http://provideocoalition.com/dtorno (tutorials) >=20 > "The most useless day is that in which we do not laugh" > -Charles Field >=20 >> On Jan 10, 2019, at 8:41 AM, Michael Powers wro= te: >>=20 >> I know this has been discussed many times before, but increasingly client= s expect/request all files from projects - including Illustrator, photoshop,= stock footage and music, AfterFX, and 3ds MAX files. >> =20 >> Is this a trend? It has been happening also with clients that we are the a= gency of record with. I am uncomfortable giving away intellectual property f= or free and having some freelancer undercutting us using our files! >> =20 >> Thoughts? >> =20 >> =20 >> =20 >> Mike Powers >> https://vimeo.com/mpowers >>=20 >> 3DBOXX W8920Processor 32.0 GB RAM=20 >> Dual Xeon CPU E5-2670 0 @ 2.60GHz, 2601 Mhz, 8 Core(s), 16 Logical Proces= sor(s) >> Windows 10 Enterprise - 1734 >> NVIDIA GTX TITAN Black RAM 6.0 GB Driver Version 471.35 >> =20 >> =20 --Apple-Mail-33A54865-7000-4878-BA61-9E504EA09C25 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This has become a trend in my experience, o= ver the years clients have come to expect/demand everything. 

<= /div>
The question is not whether you need to hand over everything to th= em, the question is whether you want to work with them again. Stand your gro= und and they will do find someone else. It=E2=80=99s not like this stuff is d= ifficult anymore. The software and hardware has removed so many pain points o= ver the years that what we do is basically a commodity. I learned that the h= ard way, after asking the very same question several times. Every time I sto= od my ground I never worked with that client again. Whether there was a cont= ract or not. 

And even with the contract, if I= ever stood my ground in contract negotiations, the point of contention was a= lways raw files. They want them, don=E2=80=99t want to pay more for them, if= I stood my ground it was bye bye. 

So I=E2=80= =99ve learned long ago to stop fighting that battle. If they=E2=80=99re goin= g to take my files to someone else, they=E2=80=99re going to do so one way o= r another. I may as well make a few bucks off them before they go. And they m= ay even stay. It=E2=80=99s a losing battle either way as far as I can tell. O= thers may have more positive experience but to me that=E2=80=99s the way the= game is played out these days



<= br>


On Jan 10, 2019, at 11:23 AM, David Torno <AE-List@media-motion.tv> wrote= :

Raw files are NOT part of de= liverables unless that was explicitly agreed upon in the contract up front b= y all parties involved.

This applies regardless of it being a company or an= individual freelancer contracted for the work.

These are details that must= be made clear at the beginning unfortunately though. Discussing these detai= ls after the fact presents very awkward situations like this that can and us= ually leave a bad taste in both parties mouths. Jeopardizing any future coll= aboration.

Many clients have a misconception that any and all files related= to the process are theirs for the taking. That is incorrect. They must unde= rstand that they are contracting a company or individual to produce a single= FINAL product. If they want versions, they pay for that work. They want to a= rchive? Then they can pay you to do so. Yes handing over those files will gu= arantee that they will reuse them later and by a cheaper individual too. I s= ee it happen a lot.

If you are willing to give away your proprietary work, t= ools, or unique techniques for free or even for compensation... that is some= thing only you can choose to do.

Good luck.


David Torno
818.391.60= 60
--------------------
www.sydefxink.com (work history)
h= ttps://vimeo.com/davidtorno (work samples & breakdowns)
=
https://gumroad.com/davidtorno

"The most useless day is that in which we do not laugh"
-Charles Field
<= div>
On Jan 10, 2019, at 8:41 AM, Michael Powers <AE-List@media-motion.tv> wrote:

<= blockquote type=3D"cite">

I know this has been discussed many times before, but= increasingly clients expect/request all files from projects - including Ill= ustrator, photoshop, stock footage and music, AfterFX, and 3ds MAX files.

 

Is this a trend? It has been happening also with clie= nts that we are the agency of record with. I am uncomfortable giving away in= tellectual property for free and having some freelancer undercutting us usin= g our files!

 

Thoughts?

 

 

 

Mike Powers<= /span>
https://vimeo.com/mpowers

3DBOXX W8920Processor=           32.0 GB RAM = ;

Dual Xeon CPU E5-2670= 0 @ 2.60GHz, 2601 Mhz, 8 Core(s), 16 Logical Processor(s)=

Windows 10 Enterprise= - 1734

NVIDIA GTX TITAN Blac= k RAM  6.0 GB     Driver Version  471.35<= o:p>

 

 

= --Apple-Mail-33A54865-7000-4878-BA61-9E504EA09C25--