From: "Tim Sassoon" Received: from sonic315-9.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com ([98.137.65.33] verified) by media-motion.tv (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.1.0) with ESMTP id 7228631 for AE-List@media-motion.tv; Thu, 10 Jan 2019 20:59:09 +0100 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=aol.com; s=a2048; t=1547150901; bh=d2ERog92PNvFxi16x6N6jTyPOLSNPuxtRF9p/7bbios=; h=From:Subject:Date:References:To:In-Reply-To:From:Subject; b=OnU3jAT+cJccR2FTXNrZR/T6939dCyck3awaYOYlHAMA4Der8uwJkhusQoz+sUW0p93XRuY+WMuFIKV3So9M2MwBUTVchCvJ6b7WMRaOIwDHqHxXB/uFhw1SqQtBiRuqjmkiY3XvF2dpIKgiaxMcS3NyKLr+ZMQMHOgwssf2ON+dZdtLX92Ys9FHEDVU6KI3TUYpwL9jFZrWSaBvR/0pUx9p2c6st/YJNnZU6LTxPOUYO5x2Gp5B7tFzWJE6enKSGEuPJS9sgLIjm8IOZTvWV1NiXcYpSf72eaABm5LI+Wf5sVPwNqDkh3BbEjLtg/DvGnde6dD2A4LkHKOk2KVjqA== X-YMail-OSG: o2d__Z0VM1mD_.h1OHWXsPWZA6beEHWUewN96fozMwHvAPbzMezsPbMyfVD0LV9 BCFEwUqbmZQb8ibVpsqI8ThGn63kLBYMKkrCKW6RCpfCSEjQEtE537nVQOLODHVbtviK9hxvG95d suMnsr0tckK49DJJyxksUmiREwcIDQOQb0bAUBNxL7C2GgBizVVAPYRE2XttpUr_jO14QCUrhxcn nB73ZWnWUZVnyPhqtkfiZMzF3D61oydIa45.SfeFHC99SD.BocX2mVSAQv1lmn449uOS5NNIq1BS a95Ik8ha.c3bf5KaRLwfqhPB7eq_DJ4La9JrSllpsHSqp2lD9tc1SiO9VHwxWlgQ5NQlGnyb6b6D 7z6vYjU_aSgmBfAQ0P2NykwikuBsKcBkZbsLwqlfTU5GL6sdayTBP7Y39DMvoZDE9X1a9hrHwk49 wbflIEMhlfjphMiH40Y3LlfzaImOV.8YlChFk2k0fbdy_CDlMIsOB8M.Ovbm3JYWs_1d9PhblPDk XxtHU.1WAhu9BBiF3nljStbWAFxxV.bxHZbAwUwNK4XGfF8cW94SSyjWT48NlitL.outwCZCTDTj LIRlK1K2vyMQqAGVXmUn0ZEAzvaVtd18gOt9i7NElZ9Voa3LmvlaFzEsRJNc.GB9VtTabOHi..MO mSSiKeEUK7v1g7gAIYcbsHDta4Ftw3uoS23jhB47eKq3zZ8.MQ301.XwOH7KqY76mu98J.ruS7LJ oo.J9IRV2qVJFrvxBCl4yN25RDcTrYiTsLYEfhn_uL_q3S0218Vlg6VvGgGPo5prnIYy8WYoenej RW7XOb9IHAyxywzGyfDuqYaU2Yj1MKNYvCvx2rXdjxPX0YxlIlxKEN9UQLBBW9cpqNGYWNR.WcfR CyzL_PlqUM3FRP4A7RqG1437G9mtxccpUDEEB25R_H7E.asNjfmyPnjKXEYBgrbV3IBEjZjodEGb 0WYR7ru1rnBb26.5ZkaQygDlSpx8JT5O9hKTQiSuqFZ6kG3PyxaD8hOn28pNDtv5yBt2IfQ92tgd t0YhaFKSyhP_NZcB9PCsBWnw3XacN8CrwAYg4_REO3TbQGhSdN.MU Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic315.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Thu, 10 Jan 2019 20:08:21 +0000 Received: from cpe-104-175-177-201.socal.res.rr.com (EHLO [192.168.0.104]) ([104.175.177.201]) by smtp427.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (Oath Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID c744deb901f3c9fef65d2b994405f992 for ; Thu, 10 Jan 2019 20:08:20 +0000 (UTC) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_0BC14AD8-D2E1-409E-9F99-62EB037A593E" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) Subject: Re: [AE] Clients requesting RAW files Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2019 12:08:13 -0800 References: To: AE List In-Reply-To: Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) --Apple-Mail=_0BC14AD8-D2E1-409E-9F99-62EB037A593E Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 I agree. Do it, but charge for it. And throw EVERYTHING in there - all = test renders, etc. Go big. In my experience it=E2=80=99s basically the collector=E2=80=99s impulse = - they feel more secure having everything. You really want them to come = back and do more projects, mostly. Tim Sassoon Venice, CA > On Jan 10, 2019, at 12:03 PM, Adam Mercado = wrote: >=20 > This has become a trend in my experience, over the years clients have = come to expect/demand everything.=20 >=20 > The question is not whether you need to hand over everything to them, = the question is whether you want to work with them again. Stand your = ground and they will do find someone else. It=E2=80=99s not like this = stuff is difficult anymore. The software and hardware has removed so = many pain points over the years that what we do is basically a = commodity. I learned that the hard way, after asking the very same = question several times. Every time I stood my ground I never worked with = that client again. Whether there was a contract or not.=20 >=20 > And even with the contract, if I ever stood my ground in contract = negotiations, the point of contention was always raw files. They want = them, don=E2=80=99t want to pay more for them, if I stood my ground it = was bye bye.=20 >=20 > So I=E2=80=99ve learned long ago to stop fighting that battle. If = they=E2=80=99re going to take my files to someone else, they=E2=80=99re = going to do so one way or another. I may as well make a few bucks off = them before they go. And they may even stay. It=E2=80=99s a losing = battle either way as far as I can tell. Others may have more positive = experience but to me that=E2=80=99s the way the game is played out these = days >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > On Jan 10, 2019, at 11:23 AM, David Torno > wrote: >=20 >> Raw files are NOT part of deliverables unless that was explicitly = agreed upon in the contract up front by all parties involved. >>=20 >> This applies regardless of it being a company or an individual = freelancer contracted for the work. >>=20 >> These are details that must be made clear at the beginning = unfortunately though. Discussing these details after the fact presents = very awkward situations like this that can and usually leave a bad taste = in both parties mouths. Jeopardizing any future collaboration. >>=20 >> Many clients have a misconception that any and all files related to = the process are theirs for the taking. That is incorrect. They must = understand that they are contracting a company or individual to produce = a single FINAL product. If they want versions, they pay for that work. = They want to archive? Then they can pay you to do so. Yes handing over = those files will guarantee that they will reuse them later and by a = cheaper individual too. I see it happen a lot. >>=20 >> If you are willing to give away your proprietary work, tools, or = unique techniques for free or even for compensation... that is something = only you can choose to do. >>=20 >> Good luck. >>=20 >>=20 >> David Torno >> 818.391.6060 >> -------------------- >> www.sydefxink.com (work history) >> https://vimeo.com/davidtorno (work = samples & breakdowns) >> https://gumroad.com/davidtorno >> http://provideocoalition.com/dtorno = (tutorials) >>=20 >> "The most useless day is that in which we do not laugh" >> -Charles Field >>=20 >> On Jan 10, 2019, at 8:41 AM, Michael Powers > wrote: >>=20 >>> I know this has been discussed many times before, but increasingly = clients expect/request all files from projects - including Illustrator, = photoshop, stock footage and music, AfterFX, and 3ds MAX files. >>> =20 >>> Is this a trend? It has been happening also with clients that we are = the agency of record with. I am uncomfortable giving away intellectual = property for free and having some freelancer undercutting us using our = files! >>> =20 >>> Thoughts? >>> =20 >>> =20 >>> =20 >>> Mike Powers >>> https://vimeo.com/mpowers >>> 3DBOXX W8920Processor 32.0 GB RAM=20 >>> Dual Xeon CPU E5-2670 0 @ 2.60GHz, 2601 Mhz, 8 Core(s), 16 Logical = Processor(s) >>> Windows 10 Enterprise - 1734 >>> NVIDIA GTX TITAN Black RAM 6.0 GB Driver Version 471.35 --Apple-Mail=_0BC14AD8-D2E1-409E-9F99-62EB037A593E Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 I = agree. Do it, but charge for it. And throw EVERYTHING in there - all = test renders, etc. Go big.

In my experience it=E2=80=99s basically the collector=E2=80=99s= impulse - they feel more secure having everything. You really want them = to come back and do more projects, mostly.


Tim Sassoon
Venice, = CA




On Jan 10, 2019, at 12:03 PM, Adam Mercado <AE-List@media-motion.tv> wrote:

This has become a trend in my = experience, over the years clients have come to expect/demand = everything. 

The = question is not whether you need to hand over everything to them, the = question is whether you want to work with them again. Stand your ground = and they will do find someone else. It=E2=80=99s not like this stuff is = difficult anymore. The software and hardware has removed so many pain = points over the years that what we do is basically a commodity. I = learned that the hard way, after asking the very same question several = times. Every time I stood my ground I never worked with that client = again. Whether there was a contract or not. 

And even with the contract, if I ever stood my ground = in contract negotiations, the point of contention was always raw files. = They want them, don=E2=80=99t want to pay more for them, if I stood my = ground it was bye bye. 

So = I=E2=80=99ve learned long ago to stop fighting that battle. If they=E2=80=99= re going to take my files to someone else, they=E2=80=99re going to do = so one way or another. I may as well make a few bucks off them before = they go. And they may even stay. It=E2=80=99s a losing battle either way = as far as I can tell. Others may have more positive experience but to me = that=E2=80=99s the way the game is played out these days






On Jan = 10, 2019, at 11:23 AM, David Torno <AE-List@media-motion.tv> = wrote:

Raw files are NOT part of = deliverables unless that was explicitly agreed upon in the contract up = front by all parties involved.

This applies regardless of it being a = company or an individual freelancer contracted for the work.

These are details that = must be made clear at the beginning unfortunately though. Discussing = these details after the fact presents very awkward situations like this = that can and usually leave a bad taste in both parties mouths. = Jeopardizing any future collaboration.

Many clients have a misconception that = any and all files related to the process are theirs for the taking. That = is incorrect. They must understand that they are contracting a company = or individual to produce a single FINAL product. If they want versions, = they pay for that work. They want to archive? Then they can pay you to = do so. Yes handing over those files will guarantee that they will reuse = them later and by a cheaper individual too. I see it happen a = lot.

If you = are willing to give away your proprietary work, tools, or unique = techniques for free or even for compensation... that is something only = you can choose to do.

Good luck.


David Torno
818.391.6060
--------------------
www.sydefxink.com (work history)
https://vimeo.com/davidtorno (work samples & = breakdowns)
https://gumroad.com/davidtorno
http://provideocoalition.com/dtorno (tutorials)

"The most useless day is that in which we do not = laugh"
-Charles Field

On Jan 10, 2019, at 8:41 AM, Michael Powers <AE-List@media-motion.tv> = wrote:

I know this has been = discussed many times before, but increasingly clients expect/request all = files from projects - including Illustrator, photoshop, stock footage = and music, AfterFX, and 3ds MAX files.
 
Is this a trend? It has been happening = also with clients that we are the agency of record with. I am = uncomfortable giving away intellectual property for free and having some = freelancer undercutting us using our files!
 
Thoughts?
 
 
 

Mike Powers
https://vimeo.com/mpowers

3DBOXX = W8920Processor          = 32.0 GB RAM 
Dual Xeon CPU = E5-2670 0 @ 2.60GHz, 2601 Mhz, 8 Core(s), 16 Logical Processor(s)
Windows 10 Enterprise - = 1734
NVIDIA GTX TITAN Black = RAM  6.0 GB     Driver Version  = 471.35

= --Apple-Mail=_0BC14AD8-D2E1-409E-9F99-62EB037A593E--