From: "Benny Christensen" Received: from mail-ot1-f42.google.com ([209.85.210.42] verified) by media-motion.tv (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.1.0) with ESMTPS id 7228643 for AE-List@media-motion.tv; Thu, 10 Jan 2019 21:17:48 +0100 Received: by mail-ot1-f42.google.com with SMTP id t5so11159555otk.1 for ; Thu, 10 Jan 2019 12:27:03 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=producersplayhouse-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=GkpluEVdmxPUPlgzPcXhkuXgJSkX2i2bpKxtz8ATN7A=; b=LnKIaKVsqtiEqbihpae0RoopVt4m0jdBnDwtCy4ce9KKtRoljOqhHg7AYMCJA2jjVS W6b27I6lyNNOmMvSgK81al46a8Bl2sOdm1OxNBC+ke1t9x4iJ/ShmF0ZuK2Q/7hI8+xm WfX/KdFxgSRuuHqLhEgZcYzmO7/6pwjZy9IoTWWmj2xI9RX+IsMYkuEfk/tPYHmDudp7 JP6Z0nZYgjsz7mCbDKkOOcuWXE1//WskZcB2+LkiQdp/aKh+RT/wVeZYlSFUEp5vd7fO RwjM61uoYTIQKpc5BMEEU/dXjC251cf5HeYxTEPREi/iy+JR7IS0tHCqmhzicq2qK0EZ 5Vkw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=GkpluEVdmxPUPlgzPcXhkuXgJSkX2i2bpKxtz8ATN7A=; b=VaH09KC6vE8o2pB2USU0hrK1PNvicLEw/GMcn7SC+kxbafF+7wETBCj/8ar3AfJ4l3 oFzX2gRZ1iPU3YoEdSUf++MsxLbv68hlTftkt0vaHC9DUHVKPzcIrwlnBD9wnlVCD5Hm r0elnk1UKw6CNXPXj/TIuGGIi45pPbNV9LSG9BavPfAnz7QmO3OH3EtS8Wy46Y3P86bA txPHbpAAf0nCEZxnJHrkdzKACcJ2At6HLlzN9INzU2js94xV4q5fr0EiXV3GJMNG7lwS 2+74IgZ2hHetvB0b3+nd7BmYFMHoNIHcD9mVHWqZAGLu86D6DAZBUsfFEmPKlSNosKuB HBCA== X-Gm-Message-State: AJcUukcpbR7SoKpLcE7oANph1eUb6nl3o5Ssg+AKF3syFU6ozhrcyYOa jWWcqo2ZqumVQL6D/oLjFP/mh9cX3WU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ALg8bN6WiUq5N9UAl9XpcJshjEZrHWWbcm3CtdlXt751MjgtIOsxVZIyvzTGpFEWoNrNhNgbOLEiQg== X-Received: by 2002:a9d:3b83:: with SMTP id k3mr8228550otc.318.1547152020890; Thu, 10 Jan 2019 12:27:00 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: from ?IPv6:2600:100b:b01e:ce10:17:67ad:61e0:6958? ([2600:100b:b01e:ce10:17:67ad:61e0:6958]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id w4sm32575007otm.46.2019.01.10.12.26.59 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 10 Jan 2019 12:27:00 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-80232B88-B982-463A-AD62-E4EDDE8FBACE Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Subject: Re: [AE] Clients requesting RAW files X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (16B92) In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2019 14:25:13 -0600 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <264E578A-9CFD-4675-8BC7-F882A1447795@producersplayhouse.com> References: To: After Effects Mail List --Apple-Mail-80232B88-B982-463A-AD62-E4EDDE8FBACE Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I will give them the raw files if they ask, but I won=E2=80=99t give them se= quences. Those are my intellectual property. Benny Christensen Producers Playhouse > On Jan 10, 2019, at 2:03 PM, Adam Mercado wrote:= >=20 > This has become a trend in my experience, over the years clients have come= to expect/demand everything.=20 >=20 > The question is not whether you need to hand over everything to them, the q= uestion is whether you want to work with them again. Stand your ground and t= hey will do find someone else. It=E2=80=99s not like this stuff is difficult= anymore. The software and hardware has removed so many pain points over the= years that what we do is basically a commodity. I learned that the hard way= , after asking the very same question several times. Every time I stood my g= round I never worked with that client again. Whether there was a contract or= not.=20 >=20 > And even with the contract, if I ever stood my ground in contract negotiat= ions, the point of contention was always raw files. They want them, don=E2=80= =99t want to pay more for them, if I stood my ground it was bye bye.=20 >=20 > So I=E2=80=99ve learned long ago to stop fighting that battle. If they=E2=80= =99re going to take my files to someone else, they=E2=80=99re going to do so= one way or another. I may as well make a few bucks off them before they go.= And they may even stay. It=E2=80=99s a losing battle either way as far as I= can tell. Others may have more positive experience but to me that=E2=80=99s= the way the game is played out these days >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >> On Jan 10, 2019, at 11:23 AM, David Torno wrote= : >>=20 >> Raw files are NOT part of deliverables unless that was explicitly agreed u= pon in the contract up front by all parties involved. >>=20 >> This applies regardless of it being a company or an individual freelancer= contracted for the work. >>=20 >> These are details that must be made clear at the beginning unfortunately t= hough. Discussing these details after the fact presents very awkward situati= ons like this that can and usually leave a bad taste in both parties mouths.= Jeopardizing any future collaboration. >>=20 >> Many clients have a misconception that any and all files related to the p= rocess are theirs for the taking. That is incorrect. They must understand th= at they are contracting a company or individual to produce a single FINAL pr= oduct. If they want versions, they pay for that work. They want to archive? T= hen they can pay you to do so. Yes handing over those files will guarantee t= hat they will reuse them later and by a cheaper individual too. I see it hap= pen a lot. >>=20 >> If you are willing to give away your proprietary work, tools, or unique t= echniques for free or even for compensation... that is something only you ca= n choose to do. >>=20 >> Good luck. >>=20 >>=20 >> David Torno >> 818.391.6060 >> -------------------- >> www.sydefxink.com (work history) >> https://vimeo.com/davidtorno (work samples & breakdowns) >> https://gumroad.com/davidtorno >> http://provideocoalition.com/dtorno (tutorials) >>=20 >> "The most useless day is that in which we do not laugh" >> -Charles Field >>=20 >>> On Jan 10, 2019, at 8:41 AM, Michael Powers wr= ote: >>>=20 >>> I know this has been discussed many times before, but increasingly clien= ts expect/request all files from projects - including Illustrator, photoshop= , stock footage and music, AfterFX, and 3ds MAX files. >>> =20 >>> Is this a trend? It has been happening also with clients that we are the= agency of record with. I am uncomfortable giving away intellectual property= for free and having some freelancer undercutting us using our files! >>> =20 >>> Thoughts? >>> =20 >>> =20 >>> =20 >>> Mike Powers >>> https://vimeo.com/mpowers >>>=20 >>> 3DBOXX W8920Processor 32.0 GB RAM=20 >>> Dual Xeon CPU E5-2670 0 @ 2.60GHz, 2601 Mhz, 8 Core(s), 16 Logical Proce= ssor(s) >>> Windows 10 Enterprise - 1734 >>> NVIDIA GTX TITAN Black RAM 6.0 GB Driver Version 471.35 >>> =20 >>> =20 --Apple-Mail-80232B88-B982-463A-AD62-E4EDDE8FBACE Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I will give them the raw files if they ask,= but I won=E2=80=99t give them sequences. Those are my intellectual property= .

Benny Christensen
Pr= oducers Playhouse


On Jan 10, 2= 019, at 2:03 PM, Adam Mercado <AE-List@media-motion.tv> wrote:

This has become a trend in my experience, over the years cli= ents have come to expect/demand everything. 

The que= stion is not whether you need to hand over everything to them, the question i= s whether you want to work with them again. Stand your ground and they will d= o find someone else. It=E2=80=99s not like this stuff is difficult anymore. T= he software and hardware has removed so many pain points over the years that= what we do is basically a commodity. I learned that the hard way, after ask= ing the very same question several times. Every time I stood my ground I nev= er worked with that client again. Whether there was a contract or not. =

And even with the contract, if I ever stood my gro= und in contract negotiations, the point of contention was always raw files. T= hey want them, don=E2=80=99t want to pay more for them, if I stood my ground= it was bye bye. 

So I=E2=80=99ve learned long= ago to stop fighting that battle. If they=E2=80=99re going to take my files= to someone else, they=E2=80=99re going to do so one way or another. I may a= s well make a few bucks off them before they go. And they may even stay. It=E2= =80=99s a losing battle either way as far as I can tell. Others may have mor= e positive experience but to me that=E2=80=99s the way the game is played ou= t these days





=

On Jan 10, 2019, at 11:23 AM, David Torno <AE-List@media-motion.tv> wrote:

Raw files are NOT part of deliverables unless= that was explicitly agreed upon in the contract up front by all parties inv= olved.

This applies regardless of it being a company or an individual freel= ancer contracted for the work.

These are details that must be made clear at= the beginning unfortunately though. Discussing these details after the fact= presents very awkward situations like this that can and usually leave a bad= taste in both parties mouths. Jeopardizing any future collaboration.
<= div id=3D"AppleMailSignature">
Many c= lients have a misconception that any and all files related to the process ar= e theirs for the taking. That is incorrect. They must understand that they a= re contracting a company or individual to produce a single FINAL product. If= they want versions, they pay for that work. They want to archive? Then they= can pay you to do so. Yes handing over those files will guarantee that they= will reuse them later and by a cheaper individual too. I see it happen a lo= t.

If you are willing to give away your proprietary work, tools, or unique t= echniques for free or even for compensation... that is something only you ca= n choose to do.

Good luck.


David Torno
818.391.6060
----= ----------------
www.sydefxin= k.com (work history)
https://vimeo.com/= davidtorno (work samples & breakdowns)

"The mo= st useless day is that in which we do not laugh"
-Charles Field

On Jan 10, 2= 019, at 8:41 AM, Michael Powers <AE-List@media-motion.tv> wrote:

I know this has been discussed many times before, but= increasingly clients expect/request all files from projects - including Ill= ustrator, photoshop, stock footage and music, AfterFX, and 3ds MAX files.

 

Is this a trend? It has been happening also with clie= nts that we are the agency of record with. I am uncomfortable giving away in= tellectual property for free and having some freelancer undercutting us usin= g our files!

 

Thoughts?

 

 

 

Mike Powers<= /span>
https://vimeo.com/mpowers

3DBOXX W8920Processor=           32.0 GB RAM = ;

Dual Xeon CPU E5-2670= 0 @ 2.60GHz, 2601 Mhz, 8 Core(s), 16 Logical Processor(s)=

Windows 10 Enterprise= - 1734

NVIDIA GTX TITAN Blac= k RAM  6.0 GB     Driver Version  471.35<= o:p>

 

 

= --Apple-Mail-80232B88-B982-463A-AD62-E4EDDE8FBACE--