From: "Steve Oakley" Received: from mout.perfora.net ([74.208.4.197] verified) by media-motion.tv (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.1.0) with ESMTPS id 7228662 for AE-List@media-motion.tv; Thu, 10 Jan 2019 23:16:19 +0100 Received: from [10.1.1.103] ([71.87.57.30]) by mrelay.perfora.net (mreueus002 [74.208.5.2]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0MAvqc-1gXqsZ309E-00A0Yn for ; Thu, 10 Jan 2019 23:25:31 +0100 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_212DF707-CB21-4F2F-B341-09F07192A2F8" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.2 \(3445.102.3\)) Subject: Re: [AE] Clients requesting RAW files Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2019 16:25:30 -0600 References: To: After Effects Mail List In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <4F7BC309-ADB3-4027-ADB9-DB4BCED61AFB@practicalillusions.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.102.3) X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:5Bgpkt5LncgJLZHm3XmS84HWNTPUYfTq09ejDptX6Y4ajT/6sPr oS0qeDZmVACQy4lGxWyNYczCPPWG8lgHAmIJ6IUhWfq8rI/o0+K7xwmHKeS85hZj/CdDmC6 Qm0FCcj0OLUXcl5Rfhmybb+YyeGKho+fQHXouNPML2zqFz+2DOaaOG6yyJu/jBhc+61e2du nqBXGbJX6vPlXgZVFjgYw== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:PTTDvhIo4f0=:/1hI7jqBQ4ZvAbbqFIu3Ga hG85bY2jfG5sbAiUHCJPyxTL6jpUTGAaPDtth3wPhUMnelPJ1zYE1xD6FWrBiGpfBN/f59TE0 QLseVyn71bK0ARFbY1aNujPkOZm/T+sELYTsEoMIVD0cyDlM4LVYLpDMxNjYiPdBlg+/TphR/ bhXuaRkEDHKw1euQFxpLJJuMYez7Oh+37/D+Eu22w+jXaSC6s3AkRttNxftZMnzH3dg1xnJpT NwEXhw94zb8D6On0ZLIWR0MwoB2jObqto9jXZrsjSElAxp8JNdCGEJpgy9w7ECKsZXbXfAvAd t7LdnO0vEU+/N6UzR9dnHufMc4QPupHpCjRDERwRKSTeQqx4u1k9ltJ1BmuHE/RZkOOw7Yk+7 WMAe8tNmWbVTGlP7syKJ5eKyS2+vVXSDWtk9Moz8R+r9TNpW63zWYr1X1yMrf6UCHHpVYcjgk kJQ/JLlRr4/HR/eTazDRsptn89NoOf2vtBzwcsAJBVkym7oc3u/TbY27JX76UE6Unpw8FXTIU v4sEqTkVTXmYS/YMYww6S549ZlRmrMSR3X2AbeOjzQe8nvGJNOFGivZeYQGmtEM5yCyv4sTwH Cyh8y8O8pvlxpyO/uEekSSlq47qnZwJXtRMrY87otA59LMAIELr7AumpciNGoYJQ5uNjj16Tk gDtjOEcsgBw0X29LNWmDVENyBRlPr6yA9jrr7K3t8etAHOswfrWgUWsbhnWwIgpFcp1gwbP5w ZFO/qBM0mMC780b+cr/JNkyIgHsi9i7aiCaA+qP7WUj5KdO1FwTwQELG2n6PX472R43lxS52L G19EcnS --Apple-Mail=_212DF707-CB21-4F2F-B341-09F07192A2F8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 I agree David, its about having confidence, experience and ultimately = not caring which way the client goes. Many clients will try to test the = water and see if they can roll you or not. I=E2=80=99ve said no and = continued getting projects although at this point and time I=E2=80=99m = ready for new quality work / projects. I just don=E2=80=99t need the = stress or lost sleep over bad clients anymore. FWIW I said no to a project during the last election cycle and I could = of used the work. It was 3 days working on what I found out where some = of those nasty political attack ads. Given the prod co=E2=80=99s prev = work that I saw, I said no. Don=E2=80=99t be a part of the problem. = Turns out to of been more than a good call as some people didn=E2=80=99t = get paid. S > On Jan 10, 2019, at 3:33 PM, David Torno = wrote: >=20 > Sorry to hear this has been your experience Adam. And everyone else = that feels they have no choice but to concede due to clients threats. I = get it, we all have to eat and pay the bills. >=20 > Sadly this is becoming a trend because it has been allowed for too = long to become one. Too many artists have "given up" and therefore the = unwritten policy of those in powerful positions with a greedy appetite = has simply been accepted as absolute rule by a lot of workers. >=20 > It does boil down to each persons experience. Some have allowed = themselves to be abused for the sake of survival, and others have fought = in the name of that very same survival. >=20 > For myself, I have stood my ground the best I can. Some wins some = losses. I've declined work before while actively working at a studio due = to the nature of it's content. I respectfully terminated a contract = three days early because of it. Offering the lost days cost back to the = client so they could find a replacement for that particular project. It = was the only respectable thing to do since I terminated the work and not = them. I've been booked by them multiple times since. I've lost clients = and have gained more. There will always be somebody in need of = something. I've chosen to stick with the respectable ones. >=20 > My feelings are that if you (to any client) believe abuse and = disrespect of the skill and talents required, are trivial and that = anyone can do it nowadays because of computers. Then by all means find = someone else that is willing to take the abuse, stress, health = implications, and risks of non payment. >=20 > Those client mindsets will always exist, but that doesn't mean you = shouldn't stand your ground and respect yourself and the hard work you = do that ultimately makes the client a hell of a lot more money than = you'll get out of it. >=20 > The advances of technology certainly have made access to = post-production tools easier, but not the education of the user nor = proficiency in using said tools better. If the human is just clicking = buttons and not thinking of the big picture, it fails. Every time. >=20 > I know it will not change things simply by saying all this, but I'd = hope that more artists flooding into this industry (at a ridiculous = rate) will at least think about doing better for themselves by doing = better for the industry as a whole. --Apple-Mail=_212DF707-CB21-4F2F-B341-09F07192A2F8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 I = agree David, its about having confidence, experience and ultimately not = caring which way the client goes. Many clients will try to test the = water and see if they can roll you or not. I=E2=80=99ve said no and = continued  getting projects although at this point and time I=E2=80=99= m ready for new  quality work / projects. I just don=E2=80=99t need = the stress or lost sleep over bad clients anymore.

FWIW I said no to a project during the = last election cycle and I could of used the work. It was 3 days working = on what I found out where some of those nasty political attack ads. = Given the prod co=E2=80=99s prev work that I saw, I said no. Don=E2=80=99t= be a part of the problem.  Turns out to of been more than a good = call as some people didn=E2=80=99t get paid.

S

On Jan = 10, 2019, at 3:33 PM, David Torno <AE-List@media-motion.tv> wrote:

Sorry = to hear this has been your experience Adam. And everyone else that feels = they have no choice but to concede due to clients threats. I get it, we = all have to eat and pay the bills.

Sadly = this is becoming a trend because it has been allowed for too long to = become one. Too many artists have "given up" and therefore the unwritten = policy of those in powerful positions with a greedy appetite has simply = been accepted as absolute rule by a lot of workers.

It does boil down to each persons experience. Some = have allowed themselves to be abused for the sake of survival, and = others have fought in the name of that very same survival.

For myself, I have stood my ground the best I can. = Some wins some losses. I've declined work before while actively working = at a studio due to the nature of it's content. I respectfully terminated = a contract three days early because of it. Offering the lost days cost = back to the client so they could find a replacement for that particular = project. It was the only respectable thing to do since I terminated the = work and not them. I've been booked by them multiple times since. I've = lost clients and have gained more. There will always be somebody in need = of something. I've chosen to stick with the respectable ones.

My feelings are that if you (to any client) believe = abuse and disrespect of the skill and talents required, are trivial and = that anyone can do it nowadays because of computers. Then by all means = find someone else that is willing to take the abuse, stress, health = implications, and risks of non payment.

Those = client mindsets will always exist, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't = stand your ground and respect yourself and the hard work you do that = ultimately makes the client a hell of a lot more money than you'll get = out of it.

The advances of technology certainly = have made access to post-production tools easier, but not the education = of the user nor proficiency in using said tools better. If the human is = just clicking buttons and not thinking of the big picture, it fails. = Every time.

I know it will not change things = simply by saying all this, but I'd hope that more artists flooding into = this industry (at a ridiculous rate) will at least think about doing = better for themselves by doing better for the industry as a = whole.

= --Apple-Mail=_212DF707-CB21-4F2F-B341-09F07192A2F8--