From: "Cary Spenser" Received: from mail-oi1-f176.google.com ([209.85.167.176] verified) by media-motion.tv (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.1.0) with ESMTPS id 7228661 for ae-list@media-motion.tv; Thu, 10 Jan 2019 23:50:00 +0100 Received: by mail-oi1-f176.google.com with SMTP id t204so10695680oie.7 for ; Thu, 10 Jan 2019 14:59:15 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=TuPBKcXju8/O2mH+YbeyLKZiOCIAs4LaTmy2G3MfNnU=; b=Fmt0akgtUUZ78Nj7NmUxXR6o8cwhqJIc3zUkoGpUKZNfobNJDza2n3MycPgkURAfFg ELXhOSW18UODVT7R50Qd0pLHQUrs+gpKNcQku3i2Zxj/xU+FHCVH9xzLPv39F6EMuU76 YdfIOsJCN5BHUJ5rP2mWUJyQcDmxUnqPTMnqXzzd1TNCzil57DL8dS06wWLfVdWXnod9 Dlk4pOG90DJ/LXm1TmLzR4z6W8NSqIQz1m1qdAMWYkTiQbuVP78rAau1WZ69wvyxL0Zc DcjBGKbErg8YIom+6zJIONzQD0a3oIyKXkYjnS+dhuh7GxeRj7Iv/tyMZ+GkhXzjCuwN kNnA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=TuPBKcXju8/O2mH+YbeyLKZiOCIAs4LaTmy2G3MfNnU=; b=WWsCLVjX4heiWtyUyb0SoCHb7KV2zWmJnSgjRKFJG79+8BNZ7HucBzOLTpi3RFy7eI d4MfG4CXeHrCoLP+brN8idqz8p3jvUOnxUImCysjL5nFf/ZHXDudLZXjlGWuEGXGxItC NwCmKmfjEe0963yPsfGrYb7WB4Yt1U2tGjl9PSxp+esw8pQjZ6B7BgD5BCwigNVpbEp3 PbD9JyKuBsTaVxSpume09FUYEa8qH2gK1yu1/UzMUmk1VlkxNfItvLLaJbnlRtyf0d/9 +1qQE9et5J8w3N4m4M3LL2+vpUauVWIC2cpBFkddeFlbfCCVxZ7WL/t+VkOB8LRLYy2k jsDQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AJcUukd96DDClKuy6MuVHhq4DFa6Ph0PmJYL9Id9jGfjUEw4fNnSGBdx UXps4EyXGlfhZWj+QGC5wwdjVz5bMqQ8NeLd8gsECw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ALg8bN6EA3sXAEQWjmFlU8lYvLgoQh5tv4iFRfSZ+yvIYu1NRmFiVa51RU2jqvVPrlSa9AmHLYfXN2ZE/AXNK7+Sx1g= X-Received: by 2002:aca:cc:: with SMTP id 195mr7816573oia.297.1547161153126; Thu, 10 Jan 2019 14:59:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from 895490483151 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Thu, 10 Jan 2019 14:59:12 -0800 In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2019 14:59:12 -0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [AE] Clients requesting RAW files To: After Effects Mail List Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000f146fd057f228665" --000000000000f146fd057f228665 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable If you farm out overload work to another AE artist, would you expect files from them? --=20 Cary Spenser On January 10, 2019 at 5:25:30 PM, Steve Oakley (ae-list@media-motion.tv) wrote: > I agree David, its about having confidence, experience and ultimately not > caring which way the client goes. Many clients will try to test the water > and see if they can roll you or not. I=E2=80=99ve said no and continued = getting > projects although at this point and time I=E2=80=99m ready for new quali= ty work / > projects. I just don=E2=80=99t need the stress or lost sleep over bad cli= ents > anymore. > > FWIW I said no to a project during the last election cycle and I could of > used the work. It was 3 days working on what I found out where some of > those nasty political attack ads. Given the prod co=E2=80=99s prev work t= hat I saw, > I said no. Don=E2=80=99t be a part of the problem. Turns out to of been = more than > a good call as some people didn=E2=80=99t get paid. > > S > > On Jan 10, 2019, at 3:33 PM, David Torno wrote: > > Sorry to hear this has been your experience Adam. And everyone else that > feels they have no choice but to concede due to clients threats. I get it= , > we all have to eat and pay the bills. > > Sadly this is becoming a trend because it has been allowed for too long t= o > become one. Too many artists have "given up" and therefore the unwritten > policy of those in powerful positions with a greedy appetite has simply > been accepted as absolute rule by a lot of workers. > > It does boil down to each persons experience. Some have allowed themselve= s > to be abused for the sake of survival, and others have fought in the name > of that very same survival. > > For myself, I have stood my ground the best I can. Some wins some losses. > I've declined work before while actively working at a studio due to the > nature of it's content. I respectfully terminated a contract three days > early because of it. Offering the lost days cost back to the client so th= ey > could find a replacement for that particular project. It was the only > respectable thing to do since I terminated the work and not them. I've be= en > booked by them multiple times since. I've lost clients and have gained > more. There will always be somebody in need of something. I've chosen to > stick with the respectable ones. > > My feelings are that if you (to any client) believe abuse and disrespect > of the skill and talents required, are trivial and that anyone can do it > nowadays because of computers. Then by all means find someone else that i= s > willing to take the abuse, stress, health implications, and risks of non > payment. > > Those client mindsets will always exist, but that doesn't mean you > shouldn't stand your ground and respect yourself and the hard work you do > that ultimately makes the client a hell of a lot more money than you'll g= et > out of it. > > The advances of technology certainly have made access to post-production > tools easier, but not the education of the user nor proficiency in using > said tools better. If the human is just clicking buttons and not thinking > of the big picture, it fails. Every time. > > I know it will not change things simply by saying all this, but I'd hope > that more artists flooding into this industry (at a ridiculous rate) will > at least think about doing better for themselves by doing better for the > industry as a whole. > > > --000000000000f146fd057f228665 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable If you farm out overload work to another AE artist= , would you expect files from them?

=
--=C2=A0
Cary Spenser

On January 10, 2019 at 5:25:30 PM, Steve Oakley (ae-list@media-motion.tv) wrote:

I agree David, its about having confidence, experience and ultimately not caring which way the client goes. Many clients will try to test the water and see if they can roll you or not. I=E2=80=99ve said no and continued =C2=A0getting projects although at this point and time I=E2=80=99m ready for new =C2=A0quality work / projects. I just don=E2=80=99t need the stress or lost sleep over bad clients anymore.

FWIW I said no to a project during the last election cycle and I could of used the work. It was 3 days working on what I found out where some of those nasty political attack ads. Given the prod co=E2=80=99s prev work that I saw, I said no. Don=E2=80=99t be a part = of the problem.=C2=A0 Turns out to of been more than a good call as some people didn=E2=80=99t get paid.

S

On Jan 10, 2019, at 3:33 PM, David Torno <AE-List@media-motion.tv> wro= te:

Sorry to hear this has been your experience= Adam. And everyone else that feels they have no choice but to concede due to clients threats. I get it, we all have to eat and pay the bills.

Sadly this is becoming a trend because it h= as been allowed for too long to become one. Too many artists have "given up" and therefore the unwritten policy of those in powerful positions with a greedy appetite has simply been accepted as absolute rule by a lot of workers.

It does boil down to each persons experienc= e. Some have allowed themselves to be abused for the sake of survival, and others have fought in the name of that very same survival.

For myself, I have stood my ground the best= I can. Some wins some losses. I've declined work before while actively working at a studio due to the nature of it's content. I respectfully terminated a contract three days early because of it. Offering the lost days cost back to the client so they could find a replacement for that particular project. It was the only respectable thing to do since I terminated the work and not them. I've been booked by them multiple times since. I've lost clients and have gained more. There will always be somebody in need of something. I've chosen to stick with the respectable ones.

My feelings are that if you (to any client)= believe abuse and disrespect of the skill and talents required, are trivial and that anyone can do it nowadays because of computers. Then by all means find someone else that is willing to take the abuse, stress, health implications, and risks of non payment.

Those client mindsets will always exist, bu= t that doesn't mean you shouldn't stand your ground and respect yourself and the hard work you do that ultimately makes the client a hell of a lot more money than you'll get out of it.

The advances of technology certainly have m= ade access to post-production tools easier, but not the education of the user nor proficiency in using said tools better. If the human is just clicking buttons and not thinking of the big picture, it fails. Every time.

I know it will not change things simply by = saying all this, but I'd hope that more artists flooding into this industry (at a ridiculous rate) will at least think about doing better for themselves by doing better for the industry as a whole.

 --000000000000f146fd057f228665--