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Hi all,
I started researching performance last year, with a view to writing up an article and some thoughts for the ProVideo Coalition. Currently I'm about 50% of the way through my plan and I'm over 10,000 words so it's a bit slow going. Even so, I was wanting to reach out to list members who are especially interested and knowledgable on performance related matters.
Teddy & Stephen were both on my list of people to approach for input and this thread just reinforces that! Are you two able let me know the best way to contact you off-list please? And if there's anyone else who has strong knowledge or strong opinions on performance/ components then let me know too.
Cheers,
-Chris
Those are good thoughts Stephen and I'll keep that in mind going forward. I am planning to use a Blackmagic card for video output but the monitors I have to use right now are 8bit HD. I'm starting to get into 4K VFX for films on my machine but most of the rest of the team is building HD promos/mograph content. My only pet peeve with the BM cards is when you have a 4K screen it won't downscale through the card and just goes black.Â
> In regards to 10bit output an option not being discussed is using a Blackmagic or Aja PCI card or device. These will give you the option of 10bit YUV or RGB output (monitor dependent). 4K capable versions of these are available for as
little as $200.
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I mentioned external card but you are not budgeting for the 4K 10-bit display that you will need to see the output.
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I have a $199 BM MiniMonitor 4K and it’s great going out to a 50” HDR TV).
But that does not get you 4K 10-bit on your desktop display or apps that don’t support that card. You have to have a second monitor where as Quadro allows you to have 4K 10-bit on your main desktop monitor.
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If you only have room for on 4K 10-bit, a card plus additional monitor is not an option. And even if you do, my setup I would rather always see 10-bit as much as possible in all my work and catch issues.
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As video moves to 10-bit and HDR in 4K, even for low-end, 10-bit is going to be a bigger deal.
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If you’re talking about a budget system Quadro cards aren’t even in the conversation (5k was mentioned). If one of the main uses of the machine will be Redshift you’re better off buying the fastest GTX or RTX card(s) you can afford. The
RTX cards may end up being a better choice in the near future, if Nvidia’s and Redshift’s recent announcements are to be believed.
In regards to 10bit output an option not being discussed is using a Blackmagic or Aja PCI card or device. These will give you the option of 10bit YUV or RGB output (monitor dependent). 4K capable versions of these are available for as little
as $200.
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That link is for 10-bit DirectX output which is for games and Direct X apps – not relevant to this discussion. Adobe and most other pro post apps don’t use or support DirectX. And just because a driver or monitor flags 10-bit does not mean
there is actually 10-bits happening.
10bit display support is all over the place on mac. MBP 2016 is driving a 24” external HDMI monitor in 10bit will driving the native display in 8bit. recent model imacs with 5K displays running in 10bit.Â
>>> Unless you NEED 10 bit color output (unlikely) do not get a Quadro. They are intended for industrial CAD / CAM workflows and are 1/10th as fast for rendering CUDA Redshift. They are intended for use cases where you need extreme floating
point precision, like designing critical infrastructure. Nobody is using Quadros for Redshift / Octane.Â
I disagree that 10-bit is “unlikely”. It’s more of a ignorance of benefits that an unlikely scenario. I get a lot of pro colorist and post house delivering stuff with banding, too much shadow noise and color/gamma problems that have obviously
been graded in 8-bit on typical 1000:1 panels. See it all the time.Â
Same as I see people mixing on headphones or uncalibrated speakers and charge pro prices for the service. The defense is always the same “looks/sounds great here!”.
GeForce cards cannot display video in Premiere or images in Photoshop in 10-bit, period or most any other pro app. You have to have a monitor card going to a separate, second monitor. That card or box + monitor for a 4K setup is not cheap.
Quadro cards offer native 10-bit OS level support with Quadros and Mac is now fully supported.
Most people think they do don’t need 10-bit output but end up delivering work that looks bad in 10-bit, 12-bit and HDR environments or displays with wider than the 8-bit (and 6-bit+dithering panels out there).
If you’re delivering 10-bit and while it used to be rare, these days almost everything I deliver is 10 bit or higher.
So I just don’t take people mastering final projects for professional deliver very seriously that don’t have a fully 10-bit or higher workflow.
Quadro plus a good affordable HDR 4K 10-bit monitor is the same or less money than a GeForce + 10-bit video output plus dedicated 4K display and offers better drivers, more stability and more flexibility (like Photoshop work).
Thanks for the input. It has confirmed my intuition to stay away from the Quadro and Xeon for this build. Looking at either 2x 2080's or 1x 2080ti now. Don't have funds for 2 of those. :-(Â
No need for 10bit output here. Mostly making HD TV promos on this machine.
okay I'm seeing a lot of mixed advice. The problem here is that there is a major real-world consequence of getting the wrong type of processor these days, and it is REALLY important to buy the right system for YOUR workflow
- Unless you NEED 10 bit color output (unlikely) do not get a quadro. They are intended for industrial CAD / CAM workflows and are 1/10th as fast for rendering CUDA Redshift. They are intended for use cases where you need extreme floating
point precision, like designing critical infrastructure. Nobody is using Quadros for Redshift / Octane.Â
- The same goes for Xeons. Do not get a xeon system. Many builders try to sell you on xeons because they can make more markup on it. They are extremely expensive and offer little to no performance benefits vs. i7 or i9. This is basically
due to A) lack of overclocking ability and B) way more expensive ECC RAM required (not necessary). The large number of cores means each core is slower than the equivalent i7/i9. AE and most tasks in Cinema are still single-threaded. The exception is if you
plan on doing a lot of CPU rendering in Arnold (which is going GPU soon anyway), or high end simulation work in houdini etc.Â
- Basically - the more cores you have, the slower each core is, this is based on thermal and manufacturing limitations. AMD TR chips are good but the same applies - only necessary for pure multithreaded CPU tasks.Â
- Currently, for future-proofing, the only GPU I'd look at right now is the GTX 2080ti - but try to find the "blower" models and not the "open fan" designs, as those tend to just push hot air around inside your case.Â
I'm not going into a specific parts list but from what you're saying I'd be looking at a system with an i9 chip with 8-12 cores, high megahertz boost / OC abvility (4.2-5 Ghz) very good all in one liquid cooling (a 360mm radiator is essential),
and one or two GTX 2080ti's. And yes, RAM prices have blown up and stayed there due to manufacturing shortages, supposedly.Â
I am currently rocking a machine I built with the core i7 7900X, 4x 1080ti, 128 GB RAM for similar workflows and it does great. I will say avoid Asus motherboards for now, they can have issues
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