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One thing I remembered is that Puget Systems often does a really
good write up and test featuring the latest Intel processors (and
AMD) on occasion. They often have good insights on systems for
mograph.
https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/After-Effects-CC-2019-Intel-Core-i9-9990XE-Performance-1348/
  - Rob
On 2/10/2019 8:13 PM, Chris Zwar wrote:
Hi all,
I started researching performance last year, with a view to
writing up an article and some thoughts for the ProVideo
Coalition. Currently I'm about 50% of the way through my plan
and I'm over 10,000 words so it's a bit slow going. Even so,
I was wanting to reach out to list members who are especially
interested and knowledgable on performance related matters.
Teddy & Stephen were both on my list of people to
approach for input and this thread just reinforces that! Are
you two able let me know the best way to contact you off-list
please?
And if there's anyone else who has strong knowledge or
strong opinions on performance/ components then let me know
too.
Cheers,
-Chris
Those are good thoughts Stephen and I'll keep
that in mind going forward. I am planning to use a
Blackmagic card for video output but the monitors I have to
use right now are 8bit HD. I'm starting to get into 4K VFX
for films on my machine but most of the rest of the team is
building HD promos/mograph content. My only pet peeve with
the BM cards is when you have a 4K screen it won't downscale
through the card and just goes black.Â
> In regards to 10bit output
an option not being discussed is using a Blackmagic
or Aja PCI card or device. These will give you the
option of 10bit YUV or RGB output (monitor
dependent). 4K capable versions of these are
available for as little as $200.
Â
I mentioned external card but you
are not budgeting for the 4K 10-bit display that you
will need to see the output.
Â
I have a $199 BM MiniMonitor 4K
and it’s great going out to a 50” HDR TV).
But that does not get you 4K 10-bit on your
desktop display or apps that don’t support that
card. You have to have a second monitor where
as Quadro allows you to have 4K 10-bit on your main
desktop monitor.
Â
If you only have room for on 4K
10-bit, a card plus additional monitor is not an
option. And even if you do, my setup I would rather
always see 10-bit as much as possible in all my work
and catch issues.
Â
As video moves to 10-bit and HDR
in 4K, even for low-end, 10-bit is going to be a
bigger deal.
Â
Â
If you’re talking about a
budget system Quadro cards aren’t even in the
conversation (5k was mentioned). If one of the
main uses of the machine will be Redshift you’re
better off buying the fastest GTX or RTX card(s)
you can afford. The RTX cards may end up being a
better choice in the near future, if Nvidia’s and
Redshift’s recent announcements are to be
believed.
In regards to 10bit output an
option not being discussed is using a Blackmagic
or Aja PCI card or device. These will give you the
option of 10bit YUV or RGB output (monitor
dependent). 4K capable versions of these are
available for as little as $200.
Â
That link is for 10-bit
DirectX output which is for games and
Direct X apps – not relevant to this
discussion. Adobe and most other pro post
apps don’t use or support DirectX. And
just because a driver or monitor flags
10-bit does not mean there is actually
10-bits happening.
10bit display support
is all over the place on mac. MBP 2016 is
driving a 24” external HDMI monitor in
10bit will driving the native display in
8bit. recent model imacs with 5K displays
running in 10bit.Â
>>>
Unless you NEED 10 bit color
output (unlikely) do not get
a Quadro. They are intended
for industrial CAD / CAM
workflows and are 1/10th as
fast for rendering CUDA
Redshift. They are intended
for use cases where you need
extreme floating point
precision, like designing
critical infrastructure.
Nobody is using Quadros for
Redshift / Octane.Â
I
disagree that 10-bit is
“unlikely”. It’s more of a
ignorance of benefits that
an unlikely scenario. I get
a lot of pro colorist and
post house delivering stuff
with banding, too much
shadow noise and color/gamma
problems that have obviously
been graded in 8-bit on
typical 1000:1 panels. See
it all the time.Â
Same as I see people mixing
on headphones or
uncalibrated speakers and
charge pro prices for the
service. The defense is
always the same
“looks/sounds great here!”.
GeForce
cards cannot display video
in Premiere or images in
Photoshop in 10-bit, period
or most any other pro app.
You have to have a monitor
card going to a separate,
second monitor. That card or
box + monitor for a 4K setup
is not cheap.
Quadro
cards offer native 10-bit OS
level support with Quadros
and Mac is now fully
supported.
Most
people think they do don’t
need 10-bit output but end
up delivering work that
looks bad in 10-bit, 12-bit
and HDR environments or
displays with wider than the
8-bit (and 6-bit+dithering
panels out there).
If you’re
delivering 10-bit and while
it used to be rare, these
days almost everything I
deliver is 10 bit or higher.
So I just don’t take people
mastering final projects for
professional deliver very
seriously that don’t have a
fully 10-bit or higher
workflow.
Quadro plus a good
affordable HDR 4K 10-bit
monitor is the same or less
money than a GeForce +
10-bit video output plus
dedicated 4K display and
offers better drivers, more
stability and more
flexibility (like Photoshop
work).
Thanks
for the input. It has
confirmed my intuition to
stay away from the Quadro
and Xeon for this build.
Looking at either 2x
2080's or 1x 2080ti now.
Don't have funds for 2 of
those. :-(Â
No
need for 10bit output
here. Mostly making HD
TV promos on this
machine.
okay
I'm seeing a lot of
mixed advice. The
problem here is that
there is a major
real-world consequence
of getting the wrong
type of processor
these days, and it is
REALLY important to
buy the right system
for YOUR workflow
-
Unless you NEED 10
bit color output
(unlikely) do not
get a quadro. They
are intended for
industrial CAD / CAM
workflows and are
1/10th as fast for
rendering CUDA
Redshift. They are
intended for use
cases where you need
extreme floating
point precision,
like designing
critical
infrastructure.
Nobody is using
Quadros for Redshift
/ Octane.Â
-
The same goes for
Xeons. Do not get a
xeon system. Many
builders try to sell
you on xeons because
they can make more
markup on it. They
are extremely
expensive and offer
little to no
performance benefits
vs. i7 or i9. This
is basically due to
A) lack of
overclocking ability
and B) way more
expensive ECC RAM
required (not
necessary). The
large number of
cores means each
core is slower than
the equivalent
i7/i9. AE and most
tasks in Cinema are
still
single-threaded. The
exception is if you
plan on doing a lot
of CPU rendering in
Arnold (which is
going GPU soon
anyway), or high end
simulation work in
houdini etc.Â
-
Basically - the more
cores you have, the
slower each core is,
this is based on
thermal and
manufacturing
limitations. AMD TR
chips are good but
the same applies -
only necessary for
pure multithreaded
CPU tasks.Â
-
Currently, for
future-proofing, the
only GPU I'd look at
right now is the GTX
2080ti - but try to
find the "blower"
models and not the
"open fan" designs,
as those tend to
just push hot air
around inside your
case.Â
I'm
not going into a
specific parts list
but from what you're
saying I'd be
looking at a system
with an i9 chip with
8-12 cores, high
megahertz boost / OC
abvility (4.2-5 Ghz)
very good all in one
liquid cooling (a
360mm radiator is
essential), and one
or two GTX 2080ti's.
And yes, RAM prices
have blown up and
stayed there due to
manufacturing
shortages,
supposedly.Â
I
am currently rocking
a machine I built
with the core i7
7900X, 4x 1080ti,
128 GB RAM for
similar workflows
and it does great. I
will say avoid Asus
motherboards for
now, they can have
issues
Â
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