From: "Glen Tubbesing" Received: from mail-lj1-f173.google.com ([209.85.208.173] verified) by media-motion.tv (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.1.0) with ESMTPS id 7247377 for AE-List@media-motion.tv; Wed, 20 Feb 2019 02:35:41 +0100 Received: by mail-lj1-f173.google.com with SMTP id q128so19297765ljb.11 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 17:46:18 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=Gl5h9j84rKuDTnjLTjangVcxSKaEfFTM8POvoITdK8g=; b=Ai8xqwm9v1BZlM5TxzU7kPAcWXtVAj/mL2wROpNX1WcMRriPb8drWd2KIqYXJbSgVj 61vn38oVmrlDJpncwYuH/hYHwYPyvwa3twxubMNv/RxjoHSipS5fgvq4BT3l/kEz8spu MCDkRa7APPRfRhz9viItsEYHDdNTho4VXJM7oOyOhay/CTinhxwE/ezzF6E71i5CQMF/ /JL3dksCx0aPt2QFpFz/19ORix9gk6k3BytOiPKU9/Iy4rtyX+QF7n5LHB88oXag9+F8 Mcnp4ISUFpLU0+Id7GndbMzseyERuZEuZutdHINpFFY/pXabkYrN/lGDQQW8rrPN0Jej s/FA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=Gl5h9j84rKuDTnjLTjangVcxSKaEfFTM8POvoITdK8g=; b=tcE6TYgnkaUa4/eF9dzK4XHJMSCf1RWqxX3cWmOvOQccn057Fv6NH20H0xmS8CYW6N bwJ4zd9PzYxTBDtxGRCdVvFWSiTAFvypJNFKUKB993pAYwAMwACSDzUyE+ZYqn4bIZCy CpmNBrzRTMBBFgYpGZJP+nQYAJsbUGaqbjRR9vf4RoryRujYj9ve2MAxwpb7bm3ocwbj lQeG7qD01untzo9F3j/C5ohg8ipkvdCclRnh/9RviGiWjF2XnSNhyk3XJb9d51JUph4q +OOC4f2Kf72/DG9F7Q4UBsML+VYILr6RqlP0jsmUAJjqFXFlI5rWRsPnWUUOzd2bpiDA FYYQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AHQUAuYbtlHhVuHrOEnEPFvBUW6gNfvSDkmlVRZbY5tVPTYkLSspg6tm r5fKHE4Zt3aWUJxyb130s0dcMjkir1F7jO0Avec5DA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AHgI3Ib3nudOYyUVzqqF0sE/56RLyHByawr8O0Qp4489PzGhsr99owh0R3jTWaAd/kHphVC4ZRyv/+y0f7j1boRDki8= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:9b15:: with SMTP id u21mr7268152lji.82.1550627177382; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 17:46:17 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2019 17:45:37 -0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [AE] Visually lossless codec thoughts To: After Effects Mail List Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000016473405824986cb" --00000000000016473405824986cb Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Teddy, Semi-related to this thread... Can Handbrake be used to embed closed caption SCC files in an h264 MP4 file? I already have the sidecar SCC file, but I want to embed the captions in something other than a Quicktime MOV or an MXF file. The files that I get from Premiere are just way too big... Thanks, Glen On Tue, Feb 19, 2019 at 3:08 PM Teddy Gage wrote: > Stephen have you tried DWAA-compressed EXR sequences? or does it need to > be a video container (sounds like it)? Chris AFAIK cineform files are eve= n > bigger than Prores at the same flavor. > > Other thought - what about H265 or an x264 compressed h264 file using > ffmpeg? I find the Adobe implementation of h264 uniformly terrible, via > older versions of AE, AME or Premiere. You can get very very clean frames > out of x264 at high resolutions using Aftercodecs or ffmpeg command line > (also fast). H265 offers even smaller files but unfortunately is very slo= w > to encode. Could be worth a test though. Last thought - have you tried > photo-JPEG? One of my go-to codecs for large-res stuff. Great performance > and file sizes. minimally lossy > -TG > > > > On Tue, Feb 19, 2019 at 5:50 PM Chris Zwar > wrote: > >> GoPro's Cineform? I don't see you mention it. I'm not sure if it fits >> all your requirements but you've obviously tried all the usual suspects = so >> it might be the only other option. >> >> On Wed, 20 Feb 2019 at 08:13, Stephen van Vuuren >> wrote: >> >>> Okay, need the collective Borg mind here on visually lossless, low AE >>> impact codec to turn PNG sequences into video file. >>> >>> What AE accessible codec can render out a under 10 megabyte, greater >>> than 8-bit, visually lossless file? We've had no success with ProRes, A= vid, >>> QuickTime, AVI. Compromise would be 8-bit file (but process in AE in >>> 32-bit) as the source PNGs are 8-bit. >>> >>> Noise and artifacts are a huge concern as we have 1.1 million PNGs, eac= h >>> of in motion over background of 4 million individual background galaxie= s >>> (23 TIFF 10,000 x 10,000 pixels tiles). >>> >>> DETAILS: >>> >>> We are preparing to render out the 8K native fulldome of the film, >>> recomposed for the 180 view. We have reached the (in)famous section so = many >>> folks here helped render. Those might recall it was 40 second shot with= 1.1 >>> million PNG files and a bunch of large TIFFs. >>> >>> That render at 5.6k was a 5.5 years on the fastest workstations of two >>> years ago. Give we are at 8K, that's a real problem. >>> >>> We had the idea that turning the dozens of sequence of PNG sequences >>> into movie files might dramatically improve things. Testing has reveale= d >>> this to be true as the PNG files, most are so tiny, even the fastest SS= D >>> disk IO speeds are floppy disk era read speeds. >>> >>> Here's the problem - AE 2019 has RAM issues. If we render the PNGs to >>> 8-bit uncompressed QuickTime, that's about 160GB for each 30,000 image >>> sequence. For testing, it we make it a 700MB MP4, render speed nearly >>> doubles on a 64GB box. >>> >>> However MP4 compression introduces noise and artifacts as well as >>> affects our masking and we are going out to 12-bit DCP. Also, the frame >>> size is 1316 x 1316 pixels at 30.000fps (it must be that for our purpos= es) >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> stephen van vuuren >>> 336.202.4777 >>> >>> http://www.insaturnsrings.com/ >>> http://www.sv2studios.com/ >>> http://www.sv2dcp.com/ >>> >>> A film is =E2=80=93 or should be =E2=80=93 more like music than like fi= ction. It should >>> be a progression of moods and feelings. The theme, what=E2=80=99s behin= d the >>> emotion, the meaning, all that comes later. >>> =E2=80=93Stanley Kubrick >>> >>> >>> What AE accessible codec could render out a under 10 megabyte, greater >>> than 8-bit, visually lossless file? We've had no success with ProRes, A= vid, >>> QuickTime, AVI. >>> >>> >>> >>> +---End of message---+ >>> To unsubscribe send any message to >>> >> > > -- > _____________________________ > Teddy Gage > President > Shotgun Inc. > 360 VR | MOGRAPH | VFX > SHOTGUNPOST.COM > BKLYN NY 11215 > > --00000000000016473405824986cb Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Teddy,
Semi-related to this thread... Can Handbrake be= used to embed closed caption SCC files in an h264 MP4 file?=C2=A0 I alread= y have the sidecar SCC file, but I want to embed the captions in something = other than a Quicktime MOV or an MXF file.=C2=A0 The files that I get from = Premiere are just way too big...

Thanks,
Glen


On Tue, Feb 19, 2019 at 3:08= PM Teddy Gage <AE-List@media= -motion.tv> wrote:
Stephen have you tried DWAA-compressed EXR sequ= ences? or does it need to be a video container (sounds like it)? Chris AFAI= K cineform files are even bigger than Prores at the same flavor.=C2=A0
=
Other thought - what about H265 or an x264 compressed h264 f= ile using ffmpeg? I find the Adobe implementation of h264 uniformly terribl= e, via older versions of AE, AME or Premiere. You can get very very clean f= rames out of x264 at high resolutions using Aftercodecs or ffmpeg command l= ine (also fast). H265 offers even smaller files but unfortunately is very s= low to encode. Could be worth a test though. Last thought - have you tried = photo-JPEG? One of my go-to codecs for large-res stuff. Great performance a= nd file sizes. minimally lossy
-TG


<= /div>

On Tue, Feb 19, 2019 at 5:50 PM Chris Zwar <AE-List@media-motion.tv> wrote= :
GoPro's Cineform?=C2=A0 I don't see you mention it.=C2=A0 I'= m not sure if it fits all your requirements but you've obviously tried = all the usual suspects so it might be the only other option.

On Wed, 20 Feb = 2019 at 08:13, Stephen van Vuuren <AE-List@media-motion.tv> wrote:
Okay, need the collective Bo= rg mind here on visually lossless, low AE impact codec to turn PNG sequence= s into video file.

What AE accessible codec can render out a under 10 megabyte, greater than 8= -bit, visually lossless file? We've had no success with ProRes, Avid, Q= uickTime, AVI. Compromise would be 8-bit file (but process in AE in 32-bit)= as the source PNGs are 8-bit.

Noise and artifacts are a huge concern as we have 1.1 million PNGs, each of= in motion over background of 4 million individual background galaxies (23 = TIFF 10,000 x 10,000 pixels tiles).

DETAILS:

We are preparing to render out the 8K native fulldome of the film, recompos= ed for the 180 view. We have reached the (in)famous section so many folks h= ere helped render. Those might recall it was 40 second shot with 1.1 millio= n PNG files and a bunch of large TIFFs.

That render at 5.6k was a 5.5 years on the fastest workstations of two year= s ago. Give we are at 8K, that's a real problem.

We had the idea that turning the dozens of sequence of PNG sequences into m= ovie files might dramatically improve things. Testing has revealed this to = be true as the PNG files, most are so tiny, even the fastest SSD disk IO sp= eeds are floppy disk era read speeds.

Here's the problem - AE 2019 has RAM issues. If we render the PNGs to 8= -bit uncompressed QuickTime, that's about 160GB for each 30,000 image s= equence. For testing, it we make it a 700MB MP4, render speed nearly double= s on a 64GB box.

However MP4 compression introduces noise and artifacts as well as affects o= ur masking and we are going out to 12-bit DCP. Also, the frame size is 1316= x 1316 pixels at 30.000fps (it must be that for our purposes)

Best,
=C2=A0
stephen van vuuren
336.202.4777
=C2=A0
http://www.insaturnsrings.com/
http://www.sv2studios.com/
htt= p://www.sv2dcp.com/
=C2=A0
A film is =E2=80=93 or should be =E2=80=93 more like music than like fictio= n. It should be a progression of moods and feelings. The theme, what=E2=80= =99s behind the emotion, the meaning, all that comes later.
=E2=80=93Stanley Kubrick


What AE accessible codec could render out a under 10 megabyte, greater than= 8-bit, visually lossless file? We've had no success with ProRes, Avid,= QuickTime, AVI.



+---End of message---+
To unsubscribe send any message to <ae-list-off@media-motion.tv>


--
_= ____________________________
Teddy Gage
Pres= ident
Shotgun Inc.
360 VR | MOGRAPH | VFX
BKLYN NY 11215
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