From: "Robert Kjettrup" Received: from mail-lf1-f43.google.com ([209.85.167.43] verified) by media-motion.tv (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.1.0) with ESMTPS id 7247837 for AE-List@media-motion.tv; Wed, 20 Feb 2019 21:57:00 +0100 Received: by mail-lf1-f43.google.com with SMTP id j1so18687143lfb.10 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2019 13:07:39 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=I85C1s9uU8v0sUDVM13WIt26QfPPKjCWFewpTEbeFw4=; b=sazZPMkxDstzjPtrUq6oiW525sjo76ZWXyg22EXzEsCpAFcCGkOpRIRIlU0s4T+s3i O4WNu+iCTUDNmWWzl3G0g0T6ds5FIVWm4VJbRe4pdLP7yuvFGFphjdhkqM/dxl3WhpC5 ckKurGiUqkK/UFYEycYyjRfmY66EmIajpXYR30glU7PE7K6bkFYN9+3mtVdMvM6Z72PG wWAswF2sBwoE8Yrny7LreG1ruWe398N1aZtA3vIJRz8Ov5L/81/sIqN8EnKxwqOhkq5u HO2gBIZ871Gpkyy/dYUzvmRjrZoUkQ1sqTwnMgKX6ZuibNgrMk90YvjniAtpXoovLb+c dYCw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=I85C1s9uU8v0sUDVM13WIt26QfPPKjCWFewpTEbeFw4=; b=WhlLOGnq3LoYp6qZQh44EyRnGy229ZGP1IsAGMGH3tti9kwsGY+AhMxTvILNG8iO67 y+SPpiGFBbuEj3kMVwkQni1b37xh33uMlFsaKgl2SFHkrvlnHaPSaEc5LJ74LD9PWQTr Xt1BR6V1F8IdDtjxLGi6iaxZDSr5FHbp++RsuJO3mZJSLxq7WomB3JKKhPyvGxLcGWLe tXwgoWgp3QCoMaXjOguv27aYXtp/7sARHk5Uytj8uE2O7fZhXN1SXsk+XhDZVWceEjei VsfDcyGvUDQTKadC+gJNrcYRCnAy5bzNEG4+2V51nZZKs06+xm/VzV6acCxKeay4veib SmSA== X-Gm-Message-State: AHQUAubeaeB4FgO1SvWU7h9a/bA0pxjC67BoE0MwWdLTGvUqRQ2OKRHy tUYcMyr44hYG9/dJwEP0SBvWAyNi19W+j2WKlPlOKQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AHgI3IYSTSb5D9vLc6uTD6lw21KRVhga6BHp+0YjjRrd10wpy7YZlGYcq130BImfddUieCnjL8hCmlUnoMKy+isAtf8= X-Received: by 2002:a19:cf4f:: with SMTP id f76mr21379786lfg.125.1550696857825; Wed, 20 Feb 2019 13:07:37 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2019 22:07:26 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [AE] Visually lossless codec thoughts To: After Effects Mail List Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000005d7c99058259bf11" --0000000000005d7c99058259bf11 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Stephen just did a quick output test with 10bit vs 8bit AfterCodec x264 files, and 10-bit is not really 10-bit, more like 9-bit if my thinking is correct here= . Did a 1024x1024 comp with a ramp from left to right giving 1024 steps (obviously :-P) that should correspond to how many graduations are possible in 10-bits. Importing this file and it will show us as a gradient jumping every 2 pixels, so 512 steps =3D 9-bit. That AE says the file is "millions of colors" (ergo, 8bit in outdated Apple QT lingo) might not be trustworth info :-) outputting a 8bit x264 mp4 file will give a dithered 8bit ramp, and a therefore a larger file than the 10/9-bit file with semi-smooth gradients So there might be a benefit in using x264 10bit in your case? Den ons. 20. feb. 2019 kl. 16.48 skrev Stephen van Vuuren < AE-List@media-motion.tv>: > X264 lossless and x265 are both fails. X264 at 10-bit, AE says is 8-bit. > X265 take 10x time to render out in Media Encoder and takes an unknown ti= me > (at least 100x) to build a frame. I gave up after 11 hours =E2=80=93 ever= y other > codec was 14 to 22 minutes a frame. > > > > Adobe and x265 simply don=E2=80=99t play in my experience. > > > > *From:* After Effects Mail List > *Sent:* Wednesday, February 20, 2019 5:57 AM > *To:* After Effects Mail List > *Subject:* Re: [AE] Visually lossless codec thoughts > > > > x264 has lossless compression methods and can also be 10bit. > > AfterCodec has support for 10bit and YUV 4:4:4, not the lossless mode as > far as i can see, but a high bitrate x264 should be better than the old > simpler DCT based Prores or DNxHR at comparable bitrates > > > > Now the question is if AE will import them correctly again. > > > > https://trac.ffmpeg.org/wiki/Encode/H.264 > > > > Robert > > > > > > Den ons. 20. feb. 2019 kl. 09.08 skrev Evan Fotis Georgoulakis < > AE-List@media-motion.tv>: > > Personally I have the opposite experience, with Prores producing about > 20% larger files than same flavor Cineform. I tried CFYUV10bit. > > On 20-Feb-19 01:07, Teddy Gage wrote: > > Chris AFAIK cineform files are even bigger than Prores at the same > > flavor. > > > +---End of message---+ > To unsubscribe send any message to > > --0000000000005d7c99058259bf11 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Stephen

just did a quick output test= with 10bit vs 8bit AfterCodec x264 files, and 10-bit is not really 10-bit,= more like 9-bit if my thinking is correct here.
Did a 1024x1024 = comp with a ramp from left to right giving 1024 steps (obviously :-P) that = should correspond to how many graduations are possible in 10-bits. Importin= g this file and it will show us as a gradient jumping every 2 pixels, so 51= 2 steps =3D 9-bit.

That AE says the file is "= millions of colors" (ergo, 8bit in outdated Apple QT lingo) might not = be trustworth info :-)

outputting a 8bit x264 mp4 = file will give a dithered 8bit ramp, and a therefore a larger file than the= 10/9-bit file with semi-smooth gradients

So there= might be a benefit in using x264 10bit in your case?

<= div>

Den ons. 20. feb. 2019 kl. 16.48 skrev Stephen van Vuuren &= lt;AE-List@media-motion.tv&g= t;:

X264 lossless and x265 are both fails. X264 at 10-bi= t, AE says is 8-bit. X265 take 10x time to render out in Media Encoder and = takes an unknown time (at least 100x) to build a frame. I gave up after 11 = hours =E2=80=93 every other codec was 14 to 22 minutes a frame.

=C2=A0

Adobe and x265 simply don=E2=80=99t play in my exper= ience.

=C2=A0

From: After Effects Mail List <AE-List@media-motion.tv>
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2019 5:57 AM
To: After Effects Mail List <AE-List@media-motion.tv>
Subject: Re: [AE] Visually lossless codec thoughts

=C2=A0

x264 has lossless compression methods and can also b= e 10bit.

AfterCodec has support for 10bit and YUV 4:4:4, not = the lossless mode as far as i can see, but a high bitrate x264 should be be= tter than the old simpler DCT based Prores or DNxHR at comparable bitrates<= u>

=C2=A0

Now the question is if AE will import them correctly= again.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Robert

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Den ons. 20. feb. 2019 kl. 09.08 skrev Evan Fotis Ge= orgoulakis <AE-List@media-motion.tv>:

Personally I have the opposite experience, with Pror= es producing about
20% larger files than same flavor Cineform. I tried CFYUV10bit.

On 20-Feb-19 01:07, Teddy Gage wrote:
> Chris AFAIK cineform files are even bigger than Prores at the same > flavor.


+---End of message---+
To unsubscribe send any message to <ae-list-off@media-motion.tv><= /u>

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