From: "Nick Fox-Gieg" Received: from mail-io1-f52.google.com ([209.85.166.52] verified) by media-motion.tv (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.1.0) with ESMTPS id 7247922 for AE-List@media-motion.tv; Thu, 21 Feb 2019 05:07:22 +0100 Received: by mail-io1-f52.google.com with SMTP id x9so373334iog.12 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2019 20:18:02 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=JGfMlWSBNre1F4LmRv1041xLaWipnzEjZKGe41b3CIo=; b=Iz99Q0aMePdQborvCmMbjlqMw5psJa+Vi1CHwWkR8e6WRcKq7AaXWcUJ5/8bCZFNfu RhLkgfMAQdN8n16o8Evk3aMmAH0ELCyI4K+nDH6JuCuH+O2jzqw2qj/uTpiQCKtGXjr8 BX0PONVzH7ymHSZt+iebiR7oj5uH5cdQeGCkh+q65l3D0c6+YSc+muHYJ+0Klx6d4Re5 v32FDv9uTUWx7LklySD3/tj2lxXqv33LvcMflRsZGkDOJyF9T34zItQP20XowaCnTzdI 9+71CvJf0XhupOy0aAe0rNCa1gJa3xqZ/6UVW4P+wZBvFlYEbNPWDh39AT7LbOfgOaia wK8A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=JGfMlWSBNre1F4LmRv1041xLaWipnzEjZKGe41b3CIo=; b=W4EDCcgNYCutZxA9Rk5rysT2qSb8KWVP8zLnoMIbHD13TzqCoSMI0pAXkQUFj/YCfd WiWLL0khX1l4Cj87MDOHo5aYMJG39FCOiDz1MyA+eIZfw+T/7CvtsiA/MR/pl2IlOk0M psSf0uFiZE6LxeSnuRWkWWOdYEHBO/3cfvppy+cA4WM6r16XTk0cQXJPZRXWVBCzJpsR LdUmcdviDEXYzljc8o+4sPGRMP6UdVAlcSNeIjOJlXkN8RBL3upMMc4hbumStn83VuUl pFfvjQIUb7xGsldTezEfylznkrFn5zmEmPeP8KHGgaDLv3XjZ/ZKeh3z3mgNSHHF3bTe AGsw== X-Gm-Message-State: AHQUAuZv9I4kCSzAu4XQLnMCp1iBHAHT+jJsMo90ze5qE6GqbMrKlXYa 20ATxSvpogLdAUdHJCEUZNC75+FmibHRuE8ljZzzfQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AHgI3IaX6RFGS3PJbOntDZxyYzGI1vy7F0RvOpfAFzTLBqP2P7YmNBzUyKeOvT6iVLjLErGCnyaPpEizroh3iXNIYwE= X-Received: by 2002:a6b:6b19:: with SMTP id g25mr24609868ioc.152.1550722679406; Wed, 20 Feb 2019 20:17:59 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2019 23:17:36 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [AE] Visually lossless codec thoughts To: After Effects Mail List Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000073865a05825fc2c7" --00000000000073865a05825fc2c7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I've had good luck with ffmpeg's PhotoJPEG (aka mjpeg) in the past. For 8bpc also look at Hap--large file sizes, uses GPU texture compression, designed for very fast playback of > 4K. Nick On Wed, Feb 20, 2019, 11:06 PM Chris Zwar Stephen what artefacts are you getting @ 100% quality? I've always > thought - after being directly told by an Apple engineer - that JPEG at > 100% was practically lossless, and any differences were due to rounding > errors and not compression artefacts. > > On Thu, 21 Feb 2019 at 13:33, Stephen van Vuuren > wrote: > >> Teddy, >> >> >> >> PhotoJPEG was a fail =E2=80=93 color & gamma shift, artifacts at 100% qu= ality. >> >> >> >> Stephen >> >> >> >> *From:* After Effects Mail List >> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 20, 2019 10:59 AM >> *To:* After Effects Mail List >> *Subject:* Re: [AE] Visually lossless codec thoughts >> >> >> >> Did you try photo-jpeg in an mov? Definitely worth a test. >> >> >> >> On Wed, Feb 20, 2019 at 10:48 AM Stephen van Vuuren < >> AE-List@media-motion.tv> wrote: >> >> X264 lossless and x265 are both fails. X264 at 10-bit, AE says is 8-bit. >> X265 take 10x time to render out in Media Encoder and takes an unknown t= ime >> (at least 100x) to build a frame. I gave up after 11 hours =E2=80=93 eve= ry other >> codec was 14 to 22 minutes a frame. >> >> >> >> Adobe and x265 simply don=E2=80=99t play in my experience. >> >> >> >> *From:* After Effects Mail List >> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 20, 2019 5:57 AM >> *To:* After Effects Mail List >> *Subject:* Re: [AE] Visually lossless codec thoughts >> >> >> >> x264 has lossless compression methods and can also be 10bit. >> >> AfterCodec has support for 10bit and YUV 4:4:4, not the lossless mode as >> far as i can see, but a high bitrate x264 should be better than the old >> simpler DCT based Prores or DNxHR at comparable bitrates >> >> >> >> Now the question is if AE will import them correctly again. >> >> >> >> https://trac.ffmpeg.org/wiki/Encode/H.264 >> >> >> >> Robert >> >> >> >> >> >> Den ons. 20. feb. 2019 kl. 09.08 skrev Evan Fotis Georgoulakis < >> AE-List@media-motion.tv>: >> >> Personally I have the opposite experience, with Prores producing about >> 20% larger files than same flavor Cineform. I tried CFYUV10bit. >> >> On 20-Feb-19 01:07, Teddy Gage wrote: >> > Chris AFAIK cineform files are even bigger than Prores at the same >> > flavor. >> >> >> +---End of message---+ >> To unsubscribe send any message to >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> _____________________________ >> >> Teddy Gage >> >> President >> >> Shotgun Inc. >> >> 360 VR | MOGRAPH | VFX >> >> SHOTGUNPOST.COM >> >> BKLYN NY 11215 >> > --00000000000073865a05825fc2c7 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I've had good luck with ffmpeg's PhotoJPEG (aka m= jpeg) in the past. For 8bpc also look at Hap--large file sizes, uses GPU te= xture compression, designed for very fast playback of > 4K.

Nick=C2=A0

On Wed, Feb 20, 2019, 11:06 PM Chris Zwar <<= a href=3D"mailto:AE-List@media-motion.tv" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferr= er">AE-List@media-motion.tv wrote:
Stephen what artefacts are you getting=C2=A0@ 100% qua= lity?=C2=A0 I've always thought - after being directly told by an Apple= engineer - that JPEG at 100% was practically lossless, and any differences= were due to rounding errors and not compression artefacts.

On Thu, 21 Feb 2= 019 at 13:33, Stephen van Vuuren <AE-List@media-motion.t= v> wrote:

Teddy,

=C2=A0

PhotoJPEG was a fail =E2=80=93 color & gamma shi= ft, artifacts at 100% quality.

=C2=A0

Stephen

=C2=A0

From: After Effects Mail List <AE-List@media-motion.tv>
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2019 10:59 AM
To: After Effects Mail List <AE-List@media-motion= .tv>
Subject: Re: [AE] Visually lossless codec thoughts

=C2=A0

Did you try photo-jpeg in an mov? Definitely worth a= test.

=C2=A0

On Wed, Feb 20, 2019 at 10:48 AM Stephen van Vuuren = <AE-List@media-motion.tv> wrote:

X264 lossless and x265 are both fails. X264 at 10-bi= t, AE says is 8-bit. X265 take 10x time to render out in Media Encoder and = takes an unknown time (at least 100x) to build a frame. I gave up after 11 hours =E2=80=93 every other codec was 14 to 22 minutes = a frame.

=C2=A0

Adobe and x265 simply don=E2=80=99t play in my exper= ience.

=C2=A0

From: After Effects Mail List <AE-List@media-motion.tv>
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2019 5:57 AM
To: After Effects Mail List <AE-List@media-motion= .tv>
Subject: Re: [AE] Visually lossless codec thoughts

=C2=A0

x264 has lossless compression methods and can also b= e 10bit.

AfterCodec has support for 10bit and YUV 4:4:4, not = the lossless mode as far as i can see, but a high bitrate x264 should be be= tter than the old simpler DCT based Prores or DNxHR at comparable bitrates

=C2=A0

Now the question is if AE will import them correctly= again.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Robert

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Den ons. 20. feb. 2019 kl. 09.08 skrev Evan Fotis Ge= orgoulakis <AE-List@media-motion.tv>:

Personally I have the opposite experience, with Pror= es producing about
20% larger files than same flavor Cineform. I tried CFYUV10bit.

On 20-Feb-19 01:07, Teddy Gage wrote:
> Chris AFAIK cineform files are even bigger than Prores at the same > flavor.


+---End of message---+
To unsubscribe send any message to <ae-list-off@medi= a-motion.tv>


=C2=A0

--

____________________= _________

Teddy Gage

President

Shotgun Inc.

360 VR | MOGRAPH | VFX

BKLYN NY 11215

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