From: "Adam Mercado" Received: from lavender.maple.relay.mailchannels.net ([23.83.214.99] verified) by media-motion.tv (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.1.0) with ESMTPS id 7248526 for AE-List@media-motion.tv; Fri, 22 Feb 2019 16:34:56 +0100 X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|adam@influxx.com Received: from relay.mailchannels.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9843A680744 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2019 15:45:35 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a54.g.dreamhost.com (unknown [100.96.19.138]) (Authenticated sender: dreamhost) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 18F41681B02 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2019 15:45:35 +0000 (UTC) X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|adam@influxx.com Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a54.g.dreamhost.com (pop.dreamhost.com [64.90.62.162]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384) by 0.0.0.0:2500 (trex/5.16.2); Fri, 22 Feb 2019 15:45:35 +0000 X-MC-Relay: Neutral X-MailChannels-SenderId: dreamhost|x-authsender|adam@influxx.com X-MailChannels-Auth-Id: dreamhost X-Shrill-Irritate: 43a785bb21ec87ef_1550850335403_509605732 X-MC-Loop-Signature: 1550850335403:2028069087 X-MC-Ingress-Time: 1550850335403 Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a54.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a54.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 904F27F605 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2019 07:45:34 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=influxx.com; h=from :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:date :subject:message-id:references:in-reply-to:to; s=influxx.com; bh=c//eEH2swdV+nZPaK71XX7qv/dQ=; b=o2EdxZx34wk5qDF44P4ZQidMQbtx kU7hpO/7mRGKzIU63/KD4l72tspHgbTncbSTyIpeUkHow8rxnyfIf8kRtVfmjNbP wAzxhwBeI8NsFuqpBG2lY2gr3ywSgDooKki8Q5h2X4pydeHnriJy6mTUNWZrz3oe UTG12SZ0/miy/P0= Received: from [192.168.1.64] (107-194-133-191.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net [107.194.133.191]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: adam@influxx.com) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a54.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0EDB87F604 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2019 07:45:33 -0800 (PST) X-DH-BACKEND: pdx1-sub0-mail-a54 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-D1F50BA2-7185-4D21-AE11-72C1C23E612B Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2019 07:45:32 -0800 Subject: Re: [AE] Dynamic Link Best Practice Message-Id: References: In-Reply-To: To: After Effects Mail List X-Mailer: iPad Mail (15G77) X-VR-OUT-STATUS: OK X-VR-OUT-SCORE: -100 X-VR-OUT-SPAMCAUSE: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedutddruddtgdekfecutefuodetggdotefrodftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucggtfgfnhhsuhgsshgtrhhisggvpdfftffgtefojffquffvnecuuegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmdenucfjughrpefhtgfgggffuffkfhgjvffosegrjehmrehhtdejnecuhfhrohhmpeetuggrmhcuofgvrhgtrgguohcuoegruggrmhesihhnfhhluhiggidrtghomheqnecuffhomhgrihhnpehshhhothhguhhnphhoshhtrdgtohhmnecukfhppedutdejrdduleegrddufeefrdduledunecurfgrrhgrmhepmhhouggvpehsmhhtphdphhgvlhhopegludelvddrudeikedruddrieegngdpihhnvghtpedutdejrdduleegrddufeefrdduledupdhrvghtuhhrnhdqphgrthhhpeetuggrmhcuofgvrhgtrgguohcuoegruggrmhesihhnfhhluhiggidrtghomheqpdhmrghilhhfrhhomheprggurghmsehinhhflhhugiigrdgtohhmpdhnrhgtphhtthhopeetgfdqnfhishhtsehmvgguihgrqdhmohhtihhonhdrthhvnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptd --Apple-Mail-D1F50BA2-7185-4D21-AE11-72C1C23E612B Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks Teddy for your honest answer. I=E2=80=99m not sure it=E2=80=99s about= getting me to change my ways though. It=E2=80=99s about me trying and disli= king something. Namely every version of AE since CC14. 15 was garbage, was t= here a 16? I know we went a long time with out an update. Then when we did i= t was like a massive UI overhaul. Because that=E2=80=99s what every AE artis= t called for on every forum. We need the UI redesigned. Tried it, hated it, d= ecided to stick with what works for me on a day to day basis where I can be m= ost productive. Change for the sake of change is pointless. I=E2=80=99m aski= ng if change, in this case, will offer me a benefit. It sounds like it will o= ffer a negligible benefit but that DL still doesn=E2=80=99t perform =E2=80=98= as advertised=E2=80=99. And that the old way of just doing all the pre rende= rs from AE and bringing them into PP for finishing is still the most efficie= nt way to work. DL is not without its uses as you illustrate with your workf= low, that=E2=80=99s actually quite handy. But it doesn=E2=80=99t seem like i= t can handle the native processing of AE files in order to skip intermediate= renders. Anyway back to the old version point. I will try CC19 as I=E2=80=99ve not ha= d time to test that yet. I=E2=80=99ll give it a proper evaluation when I hav= e some time. My AE requirements are much simpler than yours. None of the imp= rovements I ever read or that you mention above seemed to make a huge differ= ence to the basic work I do. Faster is faster, and I will definitely test th= is current project back to back. And there=E2=80=99s nothing wrong with old h= ardware either. Gains in hardware have been negligible too since a while. I d= on=E2=80=99t have the overhead to retool my system every two years. It much m= ore cost effective to make incremental improvements to my current setup with= SSDs and graphics cards. At some point I=E2=80=99ll hit a wall. But I=E2=80= =99m not on the bleeding edge of performance so again my needs are satisfied= with what I have currently.=20 Cheers Adam Mercado Owner & Creative Idiot Influxx Media Production=20 714.928.9896 Moving Images. For Business > On Feb 22, 2019, at 7:19 AM, Teddy Gage wrote: >=20 > Adam, clearly I will not get you to change your ways, but as you said, pay= ing $50 / month for 5 year old software is nuts. Nothing says you have to ab= andon 2014, but I literally could not imagine working in it completely, with= all the advancements and improvements and bug fixes since then. I can't eve= n list them there are so many. I know it's trendy to hate on AE development s= ince 2014 but many many features that have come down the pipe have increased= my productivity 10x. GPU accelerated effects and master properties alone ar= e indispensable to my workflow now. Versioning lower thirds now takes minute= s vs. hours. DL is much more stable than it used to be, and much faster. But= I guess if you're also on 5+ year old hardware, maybe you may not notice mu= ch difference. >=20 > Anyway -=20 >=20 > I still don't use DL quite as intended - I use it to create the initial co= mp to the appropriate length in AE, and bring in assets. Then I disable the D= L in premiere, render out from AE and bring the clip back into Premiere. Ren= dering through Premiere with the AE engine is incredibly slow, even with the= "hack" of closing AE. If the clip is pre-rendered you're gonna save a ton o= f time. And native rendering in AE is much faster than through any external a= pp (AME or pp).=20 >=20 >> On Wed, Feb 20, 2019 at 10:33 PM Adam Mercado w= rote: >> No you had it right the first time. I mistyped. I still didn=E2=80=99t re= alize it was the case >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> Adam Mercado >> Owner & Creative Idiot >> Influxx Media Production=20 >> 714.928.9896 >>=20 >> Moving Images. For Business >>=20 >>> On Feb 20, 2019, at 6:25 PM, George Loch wrote= : >>>=20 >>> Sorry, I meant that PPro renders slower with AE open. >>>=20 >>> -gl >>>=20 >>>> On Wed, Feb 20, 2019 at 6:55 PM Adam Mercado w= rote: >>>> Thanks George. In what ways is DL better integrated? It=E2=80=99s reall= y only speed I=E2=80=99m bothered by, although some blending mode stuff coul= d carry over from AE to PP I suppose.=20 >>>>=20 >>>> I did not know about PP rendering faster with AE open. I always margine= d it might be the opposite for some reason. Go figure. I=E2=80=99ll try and c= ompare.=20 >>>>=20 >>>> Also, is AME any faster for PP renders than just a basic Export? I can=E2= =80=99t remember if I read that AME was multi threaded and at what version t= hat happened >>>>=20 >>>> Adam Mercado >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>> On Feb 20, 2019, at 5:35 PM, George Loch wro= te: >>>>>=20 >>>>> The integration is better on later versions (Although I have recently d= iscovered a bug in 2018).=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> As to rendering speed, Premiere will render much faster if AE is close= d. Not sure if you have discovered that quick win :) >>>>>=20 >>>>> -gl >>>>>=20 >>>>>> On Wed, Feb 20, 2019 at 1:01 PM Adam Mercado wrote: >>>>>> I=E2=80=99m sure this topic has been addressed once or twice before, b= ut in light of the great Optimized System post that was up recently I wonder= ed if there were any best practices for getting the most out of DL >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> I=E2=80=99m still using CC2014 for PP and AE - not tried the most rec= ent versions, but hated all the prior versions so I=E2=80=99ve stuck to what= I like and what works (I=E2=80=99m just stoked to be paying monthly for 5 y= ear old software, but that=E2=80=99s another rant). And my experience in CC1= 4 with DL is horrible. What takes 10 mins in AE to render, takes an hour to P= review in PP.=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> So two things, is DL one of the features that got improved with later= editions? I=E2=80=99ll trade off the other negatives to get better DL perfo= rmance if it comes down to that. Also, are there system or settings optimiza= tion=E2=80=99s that can be done to improve DL performance. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Adam Mercado >>>>>> Owner & Creative Idiot >>>>>> Influxx Media Production=20 >>>>>> 714.928.9896 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Moving Images. For Business >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> +---End of message---+ >>>>>> To unsubscribe send any message to >=20 >=20 > --=20 > _____________________________ > Teddy Gage > President > Shotgun Inc. > 360 VR | MOGRAPH | VFX > SHOTGUNPOST.COM > BKLYN NY 11215 >=20 --Apple-Mail-D1F50BA2-7185-4D21-AE11-72C1C23E612B Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks Teddy for your honest answer. I=E2=80= =99m not sure it=E2=80=99s about getting me to change my ways though. It=E2=80= =99s about me trying and disliking something. Namely every version of AE sin= ce CC14. 15 was garbage, was there a 16? I know we went a long time with out= an update. Then when we did it was like a massive UI overhaul. Because that= =E2=80=99s what every AE artist called for on every forum. We need the UI re= designed. Tried it, hated it, decided to stick with what works for me on a d= ay to day basis where I can be most productive. Change for the sake of chang= e is pointless. I=E2=80=99m asking if change, in this case, will offer me a b= enefit. It sounds like it will offer a negligible benefit but that DL still d= oesn=E2=80=99t perform =E2=80=98as advertised=E2=80=99. And that the old way= of just doing all the pre renders from AE and bringing them into PP for fin= ishing is still the most efficient way to work. DL is not without its uses a= s you illustrate with your workflow, that=E2=80=99s actually quite handy. Bu= t it doesn=E2=80=99t seem like it can handle the native processing of AE fil= es in order to skip intermediate renders.

Anyway back to t= he old version point. I will try CC19 as I=E2=80=99ve not had time to test t= hat yet. I=E2=80=99ll give it a proper evaluation when I have some time. My A= E requirements are much simpler than yours. None of the improvements I ever r= ead or that you mention above seemed to make a huge difference to the basic w= ork I do. Faster is faster, and I will definitely test this current project b= ack to back. And there=E2=80=99s nothing wrong with old hardware either. Gai= ns in hardware have been negligible too since a while. I don=E2=80=99t have t= he overhead to retool my system every two years. It much more cost effective= to make incremental improvements to my current setup with SSDs and graphics= cards. At some point I=E2=80=99ll hit a wall. But I=E2=80=99m not on the bl= eeding edge of performance so again my needs are satisfied with what I have c= urrently. 

Cheers

Ada= m Mercado
Owner & Creative Idiot
Influxx Media Production 
714.928.989= 6

Moving Images. For Business

On Feb 22, 2019, a= t 7:19 AM, Teddy Gage <AE-List= @media-motion.tv> wrote:

=
Adam, clearly I will not get you to change your ways, but a= s you said, paying $50 / month for 5 year old software is nuts. Nothing says= you have to abandon 2014, but I literally could not imagine working in it c= ompletely, with all the advancements and improvements and bug fixes since th= en. I can't even list them there are so many. I know it's trendy to hate on A= E development since 2014 but many many features that have come down the pipe= have increased my productivity 10x. GPU accelerated effects and master prop= erties alone are indispensable to my workflow now. Versioning lower thirds n= ow takes minutes vs. hours. DL is much more stable than it used to be, and m= uch faster. But I guess if you're also on 5+ year old hardware, maybe you ma= y not notice much difference.

Anyway - 

I still don't use DL quite as intended - I use it to creat= e the initial comp to the appropriate length in AE, and bring in assets. The= n I disable the DL in premiere, render out from AE and bring the clip back i= nto Premiere. Rendering through Premiere with the AE engine is incredibly sl= ow, even with the "hack" of closing AE. If the clip is pre-rendered you're g= onna save a ton of time. And native rendering in AE is much faster than thro= ugh any external app (AME or pp). 

On Wed, Feb 20, 2019 at 10= :33 PM Adam Mercado <AE-List@m= edia-motion.tv> wrote:
No you had it right the first time. I mistyped= . I still didn=E2=80=99t realize it was the case



=
Adam Mercado
Owner & Creative Idiot
Influxx M= edia Production 
714.928.9896

Moving Images. For Business
On Feb 20, 2019, at 6:25 PM, George Loch <AE-List@media-motion.tv> wrote:
Sorry, I meant that P= Pro renders slower with AE open.

-gl

On Wed, Feb 20, 2= 019 at 6:55 PM Adam Mercado <AE-List@media-motion.tv> wrote:
Thanks George. In wh= at ways is DL better integrated? It=E2=80=99s really only speed I=E2=80=99m b= othered by, although some blending mode stuff could carry over from AE to PP= I suppose. 

I did not know about PP rendering faste= r with AE open. I always margined it might be the opposite for some reason. G= o figure. I=E2=80=99ll try and compare. 

Also,= is AME any faster for PP renders than just a basic Export? I can=E2=80=99t r= emember if I read that AME was multi threaded and at what version that happe= ned

Ad= am Mercado



On Feb 2= 0, 2019, at 5:35 PM, George Loch <AE-List@media-motion.tv> wrote:

The integration is better on l= ater versions (Although I have recently discovered a bug in 2018). 
As to rendering speed, Premiere will render much faster if A= E is closed. Not sure if you have discovered that quick win :)
-gl

On Wed, Feb 20, 2019 at 1:01 PM Adam Mercado <AE-List@media-motion.t= v> wrote:
I= =E2=80=99m sure this topic has been addressed once or twice before, but in l= ight of the great Optimized System post that was up recently I wondered if t= here were any best practices for getting the most out of DL

I=E2=80=99m still using CC2014 for PP and AE - not tried the most recent ver= sions, but hated all the prior versions so I=E2=80=99ve stuck to what I like= and what works (I=E2=80=99m just stoked to be paying monthly for 5 year old= software, but that=E2=80=99s another rant). And my experience in CC14 with D= L is horrible. What takes 10 mins in AE to render, takes an hour to Preview i= n PP.

So two things, is DL one of the features that got improved with later editio= ns? I=E2=80=99ll trade off the other negatives to get better DL performance i= f it comes down to that. Also, are there system or settings optimization=E2=80= =99s that can be done to improve DL performance.

Thanks

Adam Mercado
Owner & Creative Idiot
Influxx Media Production
714.928.9896

Moving Images. For Business

+---End of message---+
To unsubscribe send any message to <ae-list-off@media-motion.tv>

--
= _____________________________
Teddy Gage
President<= /font>
Shotgun Inc.
360 VR | MOGRAPH | VFX
=
BKLYN NY 11215

= --Apple-Mail-D1F50BA2-7185-4D21-AE11-72C1C23E612B--